Crosswords4 mins ago
Banning the Burka
113 Answers
Nigel Farage, the former leader of the UK Independence Party has called for the all full-face covering apparel to be banned in public places.
Good idea or not?
http://news.bbc.co.uk..._politics/8464124.stm
Good idea or not?
http://news.bbc.co.uk..._politics/8464124.stm
Answers
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You would have to have some pretty good reasons for closing down all existings mosques, and I doubt if any government, of whichever leaning could come up with any.
There's also the problem of practicality - if you close down and demolish mosques, where would Muslims pray? At home? If so, how could you police the situation where several families decide to pray together at one of their houses?
That in effect could be considered a 'mosque by proxy'.
Would there be compensation paid to the mosque owners, or would they forfeit the buildings and land?
On the question of the burqa -
There's also the problem of practicality - if you close down and demolish mosques, where would Muslims pray? At home? If so, how could you police the situation where several families decide to pray together at one of their houses?
That in effect could be considered a 'mosque by proxy'.
Would there be compensation paid to the mosque owners, or would they forfeit the buildings and land?
On the question of the burqa -
On the subject of the burqa - Mr Farage says that they "oppress" women. However, by introducing a law banning them, he's replacing one firm I'd oppression with another.
If you posit the idea that Muslim men are forcing their women to wear burqas, then a non-Muslim man banning them is doing the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction.
Not sure where the UKIP is particularly interested in women's rights. I'd be curious to here their stance on other equality measure (equal pay, child care provision fir working mothers etc).
I suspect that if we went looking for those policies, the cupboard would be rather bare.
If you posit the idea that Muslim men are forcing their women to wear burqas, then a non-Muslim man banning them is doing the exact same thing, just in the opposite direction.
Not sure where the UKIP is particularly interested in women's rights. I'd be curious to here their stance on other equality measure (equal pay, child care provision fir working mothers etc).
I suspect that if we went looking for those policies, the cupboard would be rather bare.
Sp1814 – You argument that “... by introducing a law banning them, he's replacing one form of oppression with another” is totally incorrect and shows how much you misunderstand the issue of the Burka and who much you misunderstand physical and mental oppression.
Some women are forced into thinking that they must cover their bodies and faces because that is what Allah wants and it reduces the risk that they'll be raped. These women are either forced against their will to wear this garb or they have been convinced by their male family and friends that to not wear it is a sin and they expose themselves (pun intended) to the possibility that physical harm will befall them if they don't wear it.
You're suggestion that using a legal mechanism to stop someone from being oppressed is just as oppressive as the original oppressor, is utterly ludicrous.
Full-face coverings pose a very real security threat and Farage's argument that you can't walk into a bank wearing a motorcycle helmet so why should someone be allowed to wear the Burka in the same location, is logically sound.
The idea that women should cover their faces is extremely oppressive and symptomatic of a misogynistic culture and religion.
So, Sp1814, if someone told you to put on a mask otherwise they'd rape you, are you seriously suggesting that you wouldn't feel oppressed?
Some women are forced into thinking that they must cover their bodies and faces because that is what Allah wants and it reduces the risk that they'll be raped. These women are either forced against their will to wear this garb or they have been convinced by their male family and friends that to not wear it is a sin and they expose themselves (pun intended) to the possibility that physical harm will befall them if they don't wear it.
You're suggestion that using a legal mechanism to stop someone from being oppressed is just as oppressive as the original oppressor, is utterly ludicrous.
Full-face coverings pose a very real security threat and Farage's argument that you can't walk into a bank wearing a motorcycle helmet so why should someone be allowed to wear the Burka in the same location, is logically sound.
The idea that women should cover their faces is extremely oppressive and symptomatic of a misogynistic culture and religion.
So, Sp1814, if someone told you to put on a mask otherwise they'd rape you, are you seriously suggesting that you wouldn't feel oppressed?
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Ahmskunnirt - “...a desperate attempt to garner votes by trying to appeal to certain peoples insecurities”
Why do you think this appeals to people's insecurities? Surely this a matter of equality. Why should it be acceptable for a women to completely clothe herself from head to foot to a garment that renders identification impossible? As Farage said, why should he be forbidden from wearing a crash helmet in a bank (and therefore obscuring his identity) when a woman in a Burka can walk into the same bank with impunity?
Why do you think this appeals to people's insecurities? Surely this a matter of equality. Why should it be acceptable for a women to completely clothe herself from head to foot to a garment that renders identification impossible? As Farage said, why should he be forbidden from wearing a crash helmet in a bank (and therefore obscuring his identity) when a woman in a Burka can walk into the same bank with impunity?
birdie1971,
For a law banning the burqa not to be oppressive in itself, we would have to be ABSOLUTELY sure that we know all that we can know about Muslim faith and customs. It just seems wrong for us, outside the Muslim faith, to dictate to them.
It would be them same as non-Sikhs deciding that Sikh men should not wear turbans in public because we don't like them.
If there is any push to have burqas banned, it should come from within the Muslim community.
Assuming that burqa-wearing Muslim women are crying out for us to rescue them so that they can skip to Asda in hot pants and boob tubes is a tad peremptory.
For a law banning the burqa not to be oppressive in itself, we would have to be ABSOLUTELY sure that we know all that we can know about Muslim faith and customs. It just seems wrong for us, outside the Muslim faith, to dictate to them.
It would be them same as non-Sikhs deciding that Sikh men should not wear turbans in public because we don't like them.
If there is any push to have burqas banned, it should come from within the Muslim community.
Assuming that burqa-wearing Muslim women are crying out for us to rescue them so that they can skip to Asda in hot pants and boob tubes is a tad peremptory.
And a law banning burqas in public is definitely oppressive - it's a law stating "Whatever your beliefs, as a Muslim woman, you are NOT allowed to wear a burqa...even if you want to".
It would mean that Muslim women who wish to wear a burqa would not be allowed out in public at all.
What you propose is nothing short of house arrest!
It would mean that Muslim women who wish to wear a burqa would not be allowed out in public at all.
What you propose is nothing short of house arrest!
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Sp1814 -
/// “It would be them same as non-Sikhs deciding that Sikh men should not wear turbans in public because we don't like them.”///
Wrong. Turbans do not hide your identity – they hide your hair and nothing more.
/// “If there is any push to have burqas banned, it should come from within the Muslim community”///
Absolutely. I could not agree more. But I won't be holding my breath for the misogynistic muslim community to give women equal rights.
Keyplus – Hello you horrible little man. Thanks for your knuckle dragging comment, “.. finally Muslim women have seen light at the end of the tunnel after your efforts...”. Rest assured, I shall continue to try and shine the light of logic into your medieval, misogynistic, barbaric and oppressive belief system that you call Islam. Glad to see that you're still taking notice of me. It's gratifying.
/// “It would be them same as non-Sikhs deciding that Sikh men should not wear turbans in public because we don't like them.”///
Wrong. Turbans do not hide your identity – they hide your hair and nothing more.
/// “If there is any push to have burqas banned, it should come from within the Muslim community”///
Absolutely. I could not agree more. But I won't be holding my breath for the misogynistic muslim community to give women equal rights.
Keyplus – Hello you horrible little man. Thanks for your knuckle dragging comment, “.. finally Muslim women have seen light at the end of the tunnel after your efforts...”. Rest assured, I shall continue to try and shine the light of logic into your medieval, misogynistic, barbaric and oppressive belief system that you call Islam. Glad to see that you're still taking notice of me. It's gratifying.
Continued...
TCL-MUMPING – You're right. It's not illegal to wear a crash helmet in a bank etc. However, it is completely unacceptable to the owners/managers of these establishments. If you ran a bank would you be happy to have people coming into it wearing a disguise?
Sp1814 - “It would mean that Muslim women who wish to wear a burqa would not be allowed out in public at all.”
Correct. And the problem is... what?
You might want to walk out of the house wearing a KKK outfit. Do you think you should be allowed to?
You might want to walk out of your house absolutely naked? Do you think you should be allowed to?
TCL-MUMPING – You're right. It's not illegal to wear a crash helmet in a bank etc. However, it is completely unacceptable to the owners/managers of these establishments. If you ran a bank would you be happy to have people coming into it wearing a disguise?
Sp1814 - “It would mean that Muslim women who wish to wear a burqa would not be allowed out in public at all.”
Correct. And the problem is... what?
You might want to walk out of the house wearing a KKK outfit. Do you think you should be allowed to?
You might want to walk out of your house absolutely naked? Do you think you should be allowed to?
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