Ban the hood, ban the burka

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/39622/Ban- the-hood-for-good

If it is at all possible to "ban the hood", shouldn't there also be a call for the banning of the burka, especially since it was recently used to disguise a male in a recent shop robbery.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles /news/news.html?in_article_id=541369&in_page_i d=1770

[keyplus90]

Ethel asked that what is the answer and Naomi answered that there should not be any concessions. If I have to give an answer to this problem then I would suggest two solutions and you have to pickup one out of that. Trust me that will cover every thing so far anyone has said on this thread.
1. Force every one to take all of their clothes off. Wonder around ever where with no clothes on what so ever. No one would be able to hide their face, will not be able to do shop lifting, life would be easy at the airports and whatever you may think of.

2. However If you believe that it is not practical and fair to force people to take their clothes off for the crimes committed by few off the track people. Then there is another solution. Severe punishments. Kind of punishment that people should think twice before killing someone�s loved one and before committing any crime where other peaceful and law abiding citizens feel unsafe.

I will give you the example that punishment in Islam for murder is death ( I am sure many will jump up , Oh barbaric Islam). If someone killed my child and if I know law will punish the killer that the others should think before doing it. Then well and good. If not, then I have no hesitation in saying that I would kill that person myself even if I know that this time law is different and I will be killed as well. In simple words I ill never kill someone only to catch it on mobile phone for pleasure but to eliminate someone who killed my son and may kill someone else�s because law did not told him a good lesson and he is out again.

[Kromovaracun]

1. Force every one to take all of their clothes off

Now, this suggestion, I like.

On the harsh punishments: I think you're right that more effective punishments are needed - such as perhaps longer and more logical sentencing (for instance one of the reasons why prisons are so full is that sentences for some smaller crimes are quite severe).

There are numerous things the gov't could do which would effectively slash crime that I was going to post here, but just decided not to because it would derail the thread. But my main point is that you can't stop crime through sheer deterrence.

[NikkiB]

I think the wearing of a burkha should be banned from the following:
schools (either by teacher, pupil, parent or visitor)
universities
banks
military bases
government offices
town halls
police stations
hospitals
airports
aeroplanes
buses
trains
I believe it should also be illegal for under 18's to wear it. However, as loathsome as I find the costume, I grudgingly accept that apart from the aforementioned instances, the burkha should be allowed. Shops should retain their own discretion as they are after all a business and must make their own decisions over what is customer friendly and secure.

[naomi24]

Force everyone to take their clothes off? Not necessary. Uncovering the face will do.

As for severe punishments, criminals have to be caught before the courts can punish them - and that's rather easier to do if the police know what the suspect looks like.

[pusspuss]

how do you punish a suicide bomber ??????

[Kromovaracun]

naomi: Criminals will seek to mask their appearance no matter what (unless they're utterly careless or stupid, in which case they're kind of likely to get caught anyway). Banning burkas would do nothing to raise conviction rates.

Why are people so eager to slap bans all over the place? Something should be banned if it's a clear danger to people (such as firearms or mobile phones while driving). Just reading through this thread, it's pretty clear that there's no strong evidence that burkas (or hoods) are a real danger.

Something else I need to address: do people really think that police stations/airports etc. don't have measures for this sort of thing? And if they don't, surely it would be more sensible and easier to introduce them rather than piling on a stupidly OTT ban throughout the airport/station (or country, for that matter)?

[naomi24]

Hello Krom, I don't understand your reasoning. Why would you support people covering their faces in security situations? I'm not usually a supporter of bans, but in security situations the safety of the public must be paramount and therefore people must be identifiable. Of course criminals will mask their identity if they can, but that doesn't mean we have to make it easy for them to do it. Imagine if you attempted to walk through airport security with your face covered by, say, a balaclava. Do you think you'd be stopped and asked to remove it? Of course you would - and so should everyone else be asked to remove face coverings - whether they be hoods, burkas or balaclavas - and there should be no exceptions.

[Kromovaracun]

I think we might be saying similar things.

I agree that of course there shouldn't be exceptions. That's clearly a danger. But my reasoning is that bans aren't necessary for ensuring that. To be fair, I haven't checked up on this, but I'm pretty sure airports etc. must have measures for face-checking (perhaps not involving a public derobing but more discreet ones). If this is the case (which to my mind seems highly probable), no ban necessary.

You might respond 'well, they don't'. If that's the case, then introduce them. That seems far more sensible than a heavy-handed and totally overkill ban on burkas/hoods/whatever across different kinds of public spaces. That's not the same as making exceptions for people, as they still get checked.

[naomi24]

Krom, I don't know if airports have special arrangements for checking the identity of those who hide behind any sort of mask. If they do, then that's fine. If they don't, then they should. No one should be exempt from security checks.

[Kromovaracun]

That's exactly what I'm saying. I just think a ban wouldn't do it.

Back in the post where I addressed you at 17:33, it was only the first paragraph that was responding to some point you made. The rest was just me rambling. I'll make it a bit clearer in future.

[Le Chat]

jojash- CCTV quality is often poor, simply because the purchaser has gone in for rock bottom, cheap end of the market goods. They have also used and reused and reused and reused the tape (yes the old fashioned type) to within an inch of it's life! My husband works in the industry and there is really no need these days for the images to be grainy and poor. It's all down to cost and keeping up with modernisation of products.

[simonruss]

This country is too soft and will only get worse. That Enoch Powell fella had a darn good argument.

[naomi24]

Krom, oh, I see. Not to worry. I expect we all go in for a bit of rambling occasionally. :o)

[keyplus90]

Naomi - Why don't you do one thing. Next time when you go to the airport wear a Burka and see if someone tries to identify you. Take a secret camera with you as well.

Whenever I go to the airport I just say to the security people that I know Osama Bin Laden very well, and they just let me go wherever I want to. Because according to them they have instructions from CIA and MI5 about not to stop people on their payroll.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, what a ridiculous thing to say - but par for the course. There are people here calling for the burka to be banned, and although I'm not one of them, you can't resist posting inane responses to me, can you? You really do have a problem with women who refuse to be subservient, who have their own opinions, and who happen to disagree with you - especially me it seems. The last time you advised me to take to wearing a burka, it was a serious suggestion, and I told you then, if I did, my husband would have me committed - and he'd be right. If your fervour for your religion, and for the burka, means you find it impossible to take airport security seriously, and you think it acceptable for unidentified passengers to board planes, then you have even less sense than I gave you credit for.

[Myriad2112]

Ban beards

[keyplus90]

Naomi - First of all it is in your mind that I really do have a problem with women who refuse to be subservient, who have their own opinions. I am sure I am not the only one who have same problem with you, so perhaps you have to turn the mirror around and look properly.

Airport security people do not have to have instruction from people on AB. They are all aware of what they are doing to the best of their ability. And that was the reason I asked you to go under cover and see if someone catches you up. As far as Burka is concerned then why people have to dress like others want. That is the reason I asked you to use Burka last time, because I wanted you to realize that other people should not chose how someone dresses. So if you do not like to be told to put Burka then perhaps these women do the same. I am sure no one is forcing them.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, so if your problem with me isn't the fact that I disagree with you, what is it?

You know full well that I'm not asking these women to abandon the burka. I'm saying that for reasons of security, anyone who has their face covered should remove those coverings to enable staff to properly identify them before allowing them to board an aircraft. I don't think that anyone with an iota of common sense would disagree with that.

[anotheoldgit]

NikkiB, Yes I go along with your list, but regarding shops retaining their own discretion, could you imagine the up-roar if one was to refuse to allow entrance to a person wearing this ridiculous garb? Much easier to impose an all out ban.

As Ethel has already stated, it is not a religious requirement to wear one. We have only recently seen an increase in the number of young Muslim women wearing them, they seem hell bent on trying to make some kind of statement by doing so.

In closing I think we can safely say that Kromo has lost his rather pathetic argument to justify the wearing of them.

[Kromovaracun]

Not really. Nobody's countered me at all. I agreed with Naomi that there shouldn't be exceptions but that's not the same thing at all.

Have you read the thread?