How pleased was I......

[Kos]

....to read of the 4 joyriders who after crashing a stolen car got set upon by a group of 12 men and had the s4|t kicked out of them?!?!- Thats what I call justice. Bet they won't do it again. And guess what?- the police are looking for the 12 men- now theres a surprise! (not)

[darth vader]

reminds me of the Clint Eastwood movie - first they kick you in for joyriding, next they'll be shooting you for spitting in the sidewalk. We all like the sound of this, we'd probably all want to be one of the 12 men, but in reality this is a very dangerous situation (vigilante-ism) and is one step away from anarchy. Not what i call justice.

[andy hughes]

Quite right Darth - the logic of Clint's line as 'Dirty Harry' is as valid now as it was then - and he goes on to say that while 'the system' is far from perfect, it's the only one we've got. It sounds all well and good to mete out 'justice' in this way, until it's YOU that gets caught doing something entirely inocent, and a gang of thugs decide you need a 'lesson' for some arbitrary transgression. Vigilanteism is the thin ind of a very nasty wedge, taking the law into your own hands is not the answer, however apprently 'justified' it may seem at the time.

[nedflanders]

A few years ago the town up the road from me had a "vigilante squad" who were really a mob who preyed upon drug dealers and hence ridded the place of the s

12:10 Tue 22nd Jun 2004

[nedflanders]

Where does the rest of my answer dissapear to........?

12:14 Tue 22nd Jun 2004

[nedflanders]

doh ! I can see both sides of the coin as the previous answers stated but in this case the results were positive for the town. As for the police after the 12 guys that is not a shock They will probably charge the poor guy who's car got stolen for not securing his car properly.

[nedflanders]

$kum bags ! there said it !

[kags]

I agree with darth vader and andy hughes - I don't think it is a good idea to allow people who are violent themselves make the decisions on behalf of society as a whole. Of course joy-riders, drug-dealers, and whatever criminal you care to name should be punished appropriatley, but in a fair, calm and proper manner. The legal system does sometimes fail, but by and large it is successful and if we decide to dispense with it arbitarily society will start to break down.

[kags]

but then I usually DO agree with andy hughes, probably because his answers are always so balanced and well argued - or could it be to do with the fact that he looks like Brad Pitt and I am a dead ringer for Jennifer Aniston......

[darth vader]

creep! i always polish my helmet but do i ever get a mention?

[bernardo]

I am shocked at the incident described and I am horrified at the attitude of the questionner. If there were 12 men available at the scene of the crime, then they would have been able to detain the car thieves using the minimum reasonable amount of force, and then wait for the police to arrive. I hope that the 12 thugs will be caught and be sent to prison for a long time. The sentence on the car thieves should of course depend on the severity of the circumstances of the theft, their age and previous experience. It may be appropriate to send them to prison, but not for as long as the thugs who attacked them.

[andy hughes]

So kags, our secret is finally out! Bring your blonde hair and green eyes round tonight, my six-pack and blond stubble want to talk to them!

[norfolk boy]

Well Bernado,it seems that you would then agree that a prison term of 18 months and a 2 year driving ban for killing an old lady is a just and deterrant sentence for a joy rider.Then can you explain to me if i want to kill someone i become drunk and run them over in a car the sentence is shorter than if i was to stab them to death .The outcome is the same but the sentences are different?

[cobweb]

I fail to see how beating people up will solve anything....may even result in permanent damage or manslaughter. Although the criminal justice system is flawed it's surely fairer than angry mobs administering punishment ad hoc? So i'm with Gandhi in the opinion that "An eye for an eye will make the whole world blind". I'm also saddened that Kos admits to deriving pleasure from any act of violence being committed.

[apricot]

I'm with darth and andy on this one. Taking the law into your own hands can never be right. It is sometimes easy to confuse the law with justice but nevertheless without the law we have no civilisation at all.

[Greedyfly]

The law is there for a reason - dont get me wrong I think that the law is a little f***** up and often well out of order but it is there for a reason and shouldnt be taken into our own hands

[Robinia]

How would you feel if one of the joyriders was a close relative of yours, brother or sister, son or daughter? Would you prefer that they were beaten to a pulp by vigilantes or dealt with in the proper manner? Before you say that would never happen, consider that everyone could have the potential to go off the rails but thankfully the majority don't.

[bernardo]

Norfolk Boy: No, it does not "seem that" I would "then agree" the scenario you describe. The question above does not mention anything about killing an old lady, and I have not been asked my opinion about that

In answer to your second question, the sentences are different because the crime is different. There is a huge difference (in terms of the mens rea) between stabbing someone to death (murder) and running someone over in a car (causing death by reckless driving/driving under the influence of alcohol). If someone deliberately drove over someone and killed them as a deliberate and calculated act, that would be murder just as much as the stabbing would be. So the premise of your question is false.

[Ladybird]

Agreed, not the best course of action, though they seemed justified... where would it all end if people were allowed to form vigilantes etc. But if the criminal justice system is letting us down as it does and the victims always seem tp end up being in the wrong somehow. Then the above course of action is inevitable... ...................... now who was it that looks like Brad Pitt?

[Greedyfly]

About 4 years ago my cousin died in a joyride incident and nothing came of it legally but I still dont think WE can decide on what is right legally or not.