Knife Culture

[Alan2]

No matter which way I look at this problem, the same little word keeps cropping up.... "BLACK" ... call me what you wish, I am only stating the facts

[spinchimp]

You nasty unpleasant racist.

[Booldawg]

this is all a bit knee-jerk from both sides, where would one find the official statistics?

[jno]

look as hard as you like Booldawg, you're never going to find statistics that confirm the claim in the question, that all knife violence involves black people.

[sp1814]

Alan2

You haven't defended your position. Many responders here find your views odious, or ill-informed.

Prove us wrong. Go on...let's see whether you can put together a concise and well thought out argument to support your initial statement.

(Let's see how quiet this thread goes now...!)

[kags]

I agree with Booldawg about the knee-jerk reaction to this question, understandable though it might be. Poverty is a large factor in the causes of crime. In the UK, someone from a non-white background is more likely to live in poverty than a white person. This all depends on how you look at any so called facts and interprete them. I think Alan2 has exposed himself as being smallminded and biggoted on this particular issue, and he has made up his mind already. But this shouldn't prevent us from discussing sensibly the fact that many people do perceive that most violent crime is commited by non-whites, and addressing the issues this throws up.

[kags]

and I agree with jno as well - we are never going to find statistics to confirm the questioner's extreme stance - but statistics alone don't tell any story, you have to look at what lies behind cold figures.

[sp1814]

Kags has nailed it.

Poverty is a big part of it. I bet if we checked the crime statistics for the East End during the early part of the last century, compared to crime figures in (say) Buckingamshire, we'd see a massive disparity between violent crimes in those two areas.

...and that wouldn't have anything to do with race - it would be a product of poverty. When you have money and a good job and prospects, you feel no need to go out robbing.

[admarlow]

Go Alan2 we need more people to point out the obvious ''politically incorrect'' truth!!! This is backed up by talking to any police officer off of the record, reading any local paper in London, and watching crime watch any week. Nobody said other races don't commit the same crimes, but it seams that certain groups are over represented especially in London.

[admarlow]

Who is committing gun and knife crime?

In the three months to September 2005, those legally proceeded against for a gun or knife enabled crime tended to be male (90 percent), predominantly aged between 18 and 25 (53 percent) and were mostly either Black (47 percent) or White (38 percent).

Those aged between 10 and 17 accounted for over a quarter of those accused (28 percent).

Source: MPS recorded crime

- and there are a lot more white people in London than Black = over represented

[WaldoMcFroog]

admarlow, even if there were direct correlation between ethnicity and knife attacks, that still does not imply causality. You might as well attempt to argue that you like to go for a walk at 2.00 am, note there aren't many people about and conclude that when you go for a walk, people don't go out on the streets...

What, for example, is the employment status of those people? How many are on, say �30,000 a year? How many are on benefits? How is that reflected in the population at large? What about those brought up in care? What about those with low academic achievement? etc etc

It's waaaaaaaaaaay too one dimensional just to present the facts as you've done, even if you're just stating facts.

[admarlow]

any of you points are still NO EXCUSE to stab somkeone, who cares if you are poor, there are plenty of poor people who don't stab people, no? THE FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES

[admarlow]

so jno and Booldawg ask for statistics, I give you statistics, and suddenly, statistics don't matter any more?

[WaldoMcFroog]

er... hello..? Am I jno or Booldawg?

And who ever said there was an excuse for carrying out a knife attack? No one did.

Ok, let's look at it another way; are you seriously trying to make the point that it is a person's ethnicity that is the key factor in their disposition to commit knife crime?

[admarlow]

Im am agreeing with the poster of this thread Alan2, and stating that even though London as a whole is made up of 71% of people who classify themselves as white, 47% knife crime is commited by people outside this group

[WaldoMcFroog]

...but apprently refuse to consider the rather stunningly obvious notion that perhaps other factors like poverty might just conceivably be the important ones.

Is that fair or not?

What do you consider the more important factor in someone's propensity to commit knife crime; ethnicity or poverty? Simple question; what's the answer?

[admarlow]

so there are no poor white people in London. . Another FACT there are more poor white people in London than any other race.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Oh dear... May I suggest statistical analysis really isn't your strong suit?

Do you know the ecconomic profile of the people who have committed knife crime?

[admarlow]

no I believe you should reread my posts. I said that lots more black people commit knife crime, you said it was because they are all poor, and then I reminded you that there are more poor white people than black so why arn't they out stabbing people at the same rate or more??

[kags]

admarlow - if you go back to WaldoMcFroog's first post, you will see he says that there are many factors at play, not just poverty. And how about feelings of alienation, powerlessness, disaffection, how do these things influence a person's propensity to commit crime? As I mentioned in my first post, this is all about looking beyond the superficial facts, and looking deeper.

[flip-flop]

What the hell does poverty have to do with sticking a knife in the belly of a kid for F sake???