ChatterBank2 mins ago
Knife Culture
What is the general opinion from ABers on the current stabbings ? I personally feel that a law should be introduced where it would be illegal to carry a knife or gun, or anything (within reason) that could be used as a weapon. The "people" that have committed these cowardly crimes are not afraid of authority, as they know that not an awful lot will happen to them. When is a life sentence going to mean life ? Kill somebody and suffer the consequences - there are no deterrents. Prisons are "overcrowded" - so what ? If you are prepared to do the crime, be prepared to do the time. It makes me so angry !!!!!
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I believe carrying offensive weapons is already illegal. And the police shot a man dead a few years ago for carrying a table leg. (No life sentences for them, of course. Dangerous things, table legs; not actually illegal but possession carries a death sentence.) So I'm not sure specifiying what you're allowed to carry will make much difference; but the biggest lifesaver would be to ban cars.
As for prisons being overcrowded... well, do you want them to build another one in your street?
As for prisons being overcrowded... well, do you want them to build another one in your street?
i remember that elvis....................... unless your in the position of the armed police where they look at some idiot waving a gun like object at them, it must be very hard to tell the difference!!
legalise drugs you say??................... i dont see if that could work? i would be interested in your theory?
legalise drugs you say??................... i dont see if that could work? i would be interested in your theory?
Not entirely sure of the question here... But am pretty certain it is illegal to carry any form of knife or gun. (Actually I think there might even be issues if you were taking a knife to a mates for a BBQ but anyway...)
If the stabbing is related to drugs/prostitution or anything of that ilk then personally (and it's only my opinion) I'd legalise the lot. Take the power away from the thugs. If you can get it legally you are unlikely to start robbing and possibly hurting/killing people.
Gang crime in my limited experience tends to stem from extreme poverty and then we're back in to drugs territory again. To tackle that baby you'd need more than just a longer sentence. Things in society would have to change too. Not excusing people who intentionally hurt or kill others; just trying to create a context.
Then you've got domestic violence when someone ends up getting stabbed/killed.... Whole other kettle of fish there.
Basically long sentences do not seem to deter. While there are crimes that I would like to see life meaning life for as you say, just because of the sentence doesn't mean people won't commit the crime if they're that way inclined. There was still knife/guncrime when we had the death sentence. America still has the death sentence in some states and they still have knife/gun crime.
Ultamately; you can tell a lot about a society by the people who are in it's jails (can't remember who said that). I notice that the fat cat millionaires who get rich off other peoples suffering are usually still sat on a yacht somewhere.
If the stabbing is related to drugs/prostitution or anything of that ilk then personally (and it's only my opinion) I'd legalise the lot. Take the power away from the thugs. If you can get it legally you are unlikely to start robbing and possibly hurting/killing people.
Gang crime in my limited experience tends to stem from extreme poverty and then we're back in to drugs territory again. To tackle that baby you'd need more than just a longer sentence. Things in society would have to change too. Not excusing people who intentionally hurt or kill others; just trying to create a context.
Then you've got domestic violence when someone ends up getting stabbed/killed.... Whole other kettle of fish there.
Basically long sentences do not seem to deter. While there are crimes that I would like to see life meaning life for as you say, just because of the sentence doesn't mean people won't commit the crime if they're that way inclined. There was still knife/guncrime when we had the death sentence. America still has the death sentence in some states and they still have knife/gun crime.
Ultamately; you can tell a lot about a society by the people who are in it's jails (can't remember who said that). I notice that the fat cat millionaires who get rich off other peoples suffering are usually still sat on a yacht somewhere.
Is it 7 fatal stabbings in London over the last few days ? Of course carrying an offensive weapon is illegal, but I don't see that there's much can be done about it now. Many areas are completely no-go, areas I feel unhappy even cycling rapidly through, and never after dark.
We have gangland and crime ghettos.
We should lock them up for a very long time, but we don't have the prison space. Any volunteers to have a new prison built in your area ?
We have gangland and crime ghettos.
We should lock them up for a very long time, but we don't have the prison space. Any volunteers to have a new prison built in your area ?
Sorry to be pendantic, but carrying an offensive weopan is not a crime (unless the said article is offensive per ce and banned under law, i.e flick knife, knuckle dusters etc). It is the "intention" of the owner at the time which will make an offensive weopan an offence.
Regarding knives, a much better law is "Bladed Article in a Public Place".
The onus is on the defendant to prove he has reasonable cause to be carrying the blade, i.e fisherman, carpenter, just purchased the knife, a Sikh etc etc.
Whereas with offensive weapons, the onus is on the crown to prove their intentions. Much harder with a lower conviction rate.
Regarding knives, a much better law is "Bladed Article in a Public Place".
The onus is on the defendant to prove he has reasonable cause to be carrying the blade, i.e fisherman, carpenter, just purchased the knife, a Sikh etc etc.
Whereas with offensive weapons, the onus is on the crown to prove their intentions. Much harder with a lower conviction rate.
Why is it that whenever capital punishment appears in a debate someone makes the statement that it is not a deterrent. This is an impossible statement to prove unless you can read the minds of everyone involved in a violent confrontation, the minds of anyone seeking revenge, the minds of anyone seeking large financial gain. Yes, violent crime still happens where the death penalty is in place but no-one can possibly say how many homicides have been prevented or not.
Pro advocates of capital punishment have a strong arguement when you look at the figures. The homicide rate is this country has risen since abolition. The figures for Texas, despite claims above, have dropped. Although there are too many other factors involved to reach a clear conclusion from figures alone.
Good link re figures and both side of the debate.
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/th oughts.html
I think that all punishment should hold an element of fear for the criminal which is not apparent in our society. To say that being caught is the best deterrent is too simplistic. If you have ever met the professional thief, burglar etc you would know that they realise that it is inevitable that they will be caught at some time. It's an occupational hazard to them and a bonus when they get a suspended sentence or community service.
Pro advocates of capital punishment have a strong arguement when you look at the figures. The homicide rate is this country has risen since abolition. The figures for Texas, despite claims above, have dropped. Although there are too many other factors involved to reach a clear conclusion from figures alone.
Good link re figures and both side of the debate.
http://www.richard.clark32.btinternet.co.uk/th oughts.html
I think that all punishment should hold an element of fear for the criminal which is not apparent in our society. To say that being caught is the best deterrent is too simplistic. If you have ever met the professional thief, burglar etc you would know that they realise that it is inevitable that they will be caught at some time. It's an occupational hazard to them and a bonus when they get a suspended sentence or community service.
NJOK, regarding "Bladed article", yes it is a complete crime, full stop UNLESS the defendant shows reasonable grounds.
Lots of crimes are like that.
"Innocent until proved guilty" has always been a misquote in English Law. Where the saying comes from is looking solely at the Police at time of arrest.
Lots of crimes are like that.
"Innocent until proved guilty" has always been a misquote in English Law. Where the saying comes from is looking solely at the Police at time of arrest.
Think I opened a can of worms here !! To those who ask would I like a prison built near my home - I have live dwith my wife and family for 38 years within spitting distance of Feltham Young Offenders Institute (formerly Feltham Borstal) and made regular visits there through my job as a firefighter. Also in the past 3 years we have had a new female prison built in Ashford, called Bronzefield (?), just 3 miles from my home. I believe, therefore, that I am not a "NIMBY" !! Something else that irks me is" Prisoners' rights" - why should they have any rights when they take so much away from those they commit crimes against ? I could go on for days with my views, but my wife says I'm spending too much time with my PC !! Thanks for all of your views.
FBG40
FBG40
Bottom line
If you've seen any of the series - by that guy from eastenders , ( whose name escapes me ) - you will have seen that gang members , the world over consider knifing/shooting another human as being some sort of trophy - they dont see anything wrong in their actions .
( What was the reason for this last killing ? - the poor kid looked at them the ' wrong way ' )
Whilst this mindset prevails - no political party , of whatever colour is going to put a stop to this - despite their tough talking .
If you've seen any of the series - by that guy from eastenders , ( whose name escapes me ) - you will have seen that gang members , the world over consider knifing/shooting another human as being some sort of trophy - they dont see anything wrong in their actions .
( What was the reason for this last killing ? - the poor kid looked at them the ' wrong way ' )
Whilst this mindset prevails - no political party , of whatever colour is going to put a stop to this - despite their tough talking .
Fair point, Joe.
chompu, are you suggesting that, because burglars and petty thieves regard a six-month stretch as an occupational hazard, a potential murderer is going to view 15 years in the same way?
If, by your own argument, it's impossible to say how many homicides would or wouldn't have been prevented, surely that's an argument AGAINST capital punishment? Or do you think we should bring it back on the off chance?
chompu, are you suggesting that, because burglars and petty thieves regard a six-month stretch as an occupational hazard, a potential murderer is going to view 15 years in the same way?
If, by your own argument, it's impossible to say how many homicides would or wouldn't have been prevented, surely that's an argument AGAINST capital punishment? Or do you think we should bring it back on the off chance?
Njok.
No, what I was criticising was the opinion, so easy to state, that capital punishment is not a deterrent because it can't be proved. Fit a burglar alarm to your house and no-one will never know how many burgaries it may have prevented.
The figures alone should not be used in making a decision although they tend to support the pro advocates. I think the choice is moralistic and the link I gave above presents the fors and againsts in a very balanced presentation.
I was not suggesting that the attitude of the professional criminal is the same as someone who murders in the heat of the moment, although professional hitman may hesitate at the thought of a deterrent punishment.
I gave the example as a counter to the claim that being caught was the best deterrent and that harsh sentences didn't work. Punishments are very individualistic. There are some people to whom a court appearance and publicity would be so shameful that it alone would be punishment whilst others treat the courts with distain and view them almost as departure lounges for their trip to the holiday camp.
No, what I was criticising was the opinion, so easy to state, that capital punishment is not a deterrent because it can't be proved. Fit a burglar alarm to your house and no-one will never know how many burgaries it may have prevented.
The figures alone should not be used in making a decision although they tend to support the pro advocates. I think the choice is moralistic and the link I gave above presents the fors and againsts in a very balanced presentation.
I was not suggesting that the attitude of the professional criminal is the same as someone who murders in the heat of the moment, although professional hitman may hesitate at the thought of a deterrent punishment.
I gave the example as a counter to the claim that being caught was the best deterrent and that harsh sentences didn't work. Punishments are very individualistic. There are some people to whom a court appearance and publicity would be so shameful that it alone would be punishment whilst others treat the courts with distain and view them almost as departure lounges for their trip to the holiday camp.
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