ChatterBank1 min ago
Wales Leading The Way?
I'm in favour of it but I suspect that not all AB members will be!
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Gromit
/Fatti,
I didn’t claim it, the link did ?
Come back when you have learned to read./
Really? I didn’t read this paragraph in the link.
Gromit
//Fatti
Stupid cyclists overtaking cars at 30mph is a loophole that should be closed. The point is to slow ALL the traffic, not make it a tour de France route.//
Care to revise that? My reading is fine, your recollection of your posts is clearly Johnson-esque!
/Fatti,
I didn’t claim it, the link did ?
Come back when you have learned to read./
Really? I didn’t read this paragraph in the link.
Gromit
//Fatti
Stupid cyclists overtaking cars at 30mph is a loophole that should be closed. The point is to slow ALL the traffic, not make it a tour de France route.//
Care to revise that? My reading is fine, your recollection of your posts is clearly Johnson-esque!
Further investigation has enabled me to clarify this.
Section 81 of The Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984, provides for a 30mph limit on restricted roads. But that same section also provides for Welsh and Scottish ministers to alter the default limit. So no signage or TROs will be required (though the "terminal" signs where 30mph limits begin will all have to be changed). When driving in Wales, motorists will have to remember that the default speed limit in areas with street lighting is 20mph. I feel that the numbers of speed awareness courses and fixed penalties are likely to increase.
Section 81 of The Road Traffic Regulation Act, 1984, provides for a 30mph limit on restricted roads. But that same section also provides for Welsh and Scottish ministers to alter the default limit. So no signage or TROs will be required (though the "terminal" signs where 30mph limits begin will all have to be changed). When driving in Wales, motorists will have to remember that the default speed limit in areas with street lighting is 20mph. I feel that the numbers of speed awareness courses and fixed penalties are likely to increase.
I'm sure the 20mph does apply to all road users. But we all know the gung-ho attitude of the average MAMIL, don't we. I had one ride straight at me as I was negotiation one of those village 'priority' lane thingys.
I'm in favour of the 20mph limit BTW. Will save being caught out when the limit changes from 30 to 20. Not that I ever have.
I'm in favour of the 20mph limit BTW. Will save being caught out when the limit changes from 30 to 20. Not that I ever have.
Gromit, the 20 mph rule does apply to all road users. Anecdotal evidence in the link was of drivers claiming that they’d seen cyclists passing motorists at 20 mph but no actual proof.
Your assertion to me was that ‘stupid cyclists’ have been known to overtake motorists travelling at 30 mph, which I questioned.
When challenged, you’ve no actual proof of that and back-pedalling(pun intended) hasn’t worked out for you.
Your assertion to me was that ‘stupid cyclists’ have been known to overtake motorists travelling at 30 mph, which I questioned.
When challenged, you’ve no actual proof of that and back-pedalling(pun intended) hasn’t worked out for you.
OK I shouldn’t have plucked 30mph out of the air. But the point was not the speed (it could have been only 20.5mph), it is the report that they were overtaking cars. That was not what the 20mph zone was set up for, is clearly dangers and should be clamped down on immediately.
I don’t understand why you are supporting a very dangerous practice ?
I don’t understand why you are supporting a very dangerous practice ?
// Your assertion to me was that ‘stupid cyclists’ have been known to overtake motorists travelling at 30 mph, which I questioned. //
It was not an assertion it was a response to the report of cyclists doing that in the link.
If you had read the link, you would have understood.
If you want to overtake cars on your bike in a 20mph, who am I to stop you.
It was not an assertion it was a response to the report of cyclists doing that in the link.
If you had read the link, you would have understood.
If you want to overtake cars on your bike in a 20mph, who am I to stop you.
I’m not supporting any dangerous practice.
I believe that the speed limit is there for all, the chances of a cyclist breaking it are extremely minimal and almost impossible to Police.
I’m also all for cyclists riding to the Highway Code. If motorists stick to it as well it means everyone stays safe.
Most of the ire on this story has invariably been aimed at cyclists when in reality it’s motorists who break speed limits regularly, cyclists rarely.
I believe that the speed limit is there for all, the chances of a cyclist breaking it are extremely minimal and almost impossible to Police.
I’m also all for cyclists riding to the Highway Code. If motorists stick to it as well it means everyone stays safe.
Most of the ire on this story has invariably been aimed at cyclists when in reality it’s motorists who break speed limits regularly, cyclists rarely.
In 2007, Manchester City Council held a referendum, asking people to approve the introduction of toll charging. This was rejected by 70 to 30. Since then, the council have introduced 20 mph speed limits on over 3,000 streets and roads. They have also closed off many city centre streets via pedestrianisation. Parking charges have increased whilst allowed times have been reduced. The charging period has also increased to 12 hours. Other, anti-traffic measures have also been introduced, ie, more speed bumps, road narrowing, speed cameras etc. The council lost the vote for a toll charge, but bejaysus it's getting it's own back now folks!
I hope you don’t cycle thecorbyloon
//As bikes are not required to have speedometers, how would cyclists know they're going too fast? //
It would be a good guess that the car is travelling close to the 20mph speed limit, so if they were overtaking the car, they would be going too fast.
Even if the car was going 16mph or 19mph, it is a dangerous thing to do.
//As bikes are not required to have speedometers, how would cyclists know they're going too fast? //
It would be a good guess that the car is travelling close to the 20mph speed limit, so if they were overtaking the car, they would be going too fast.
Even if the car was going 16mph or 19mph, it is a dangerous thing to do.
THECORBYLOON
//As bikes are not required to have speedometers, how would cyclists know they're going too fast?//
A Garmin or similar device will tell you but not every cyclist would have one.
Furthermore, the chances of them attaining 20 mph on a flat road in an urban setting for any sustained period is extremely minimal, hence I referenced the ‘anecdotal evidence’ of the drivers claims.
The woman in the link said:
"Cyclists are having a whale of a time on Liverpool Road because they can do more than 20mph on their bikes and we can't do more than 20mph in a car - so I've had quite a lot of reports of people being overtaken by cycles."
Seems she’s ‘had a lot of reports’ but no factual or documentary evidence so we’ll leave it at that.
Maybe the local Police need to do some hi-vis patrolling in that area?
//As bikes are not required to have speedometers, how would cyclists know they're going too fast?//
A Garmin or similar device will tell you but not every cyclist would have one.
Furthermore, the chances of them attaining 20 mph on a flat road in an urban setting for any sustained period is extremely minimal, hence I referenced the ‘anecdotal evidence’ of the drivers claims.
The woman in the link said:
"Cyclists are having a whale of a time on Liverpool Road because they can do more than 20mph on their bikes and we can't do more than 20mph in a car - so I've had quite a lot of reports of people being overtaken by cycles."
Seems she’s ‘had a lot of reports’ but no factual or documentary evidence so we’ll leave it at that.
Maybe the local Police need to do some hi-vis patrolling in that area?
//The 20mph limit should apply to ALL road users, and cycles should not be exempt on safety grounds.//
No speed limits apply to cyclists. Speeding offences are prosecuted under s89 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act. This begins:
"A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."
The limits only apply to drivers of motor vehicles. Apart from that, even if cyclists were subject to the limit, there is the not inconsiderable problem of enforcement. Pedal cycles are not registered and have no registration mark; any action could therefore only follow from a stop by the police. Cyclists need no licence so a fine would be the only sanction; penalty points or disqualification are not options.
There are offences of "Dangerous Cycling", "Careless Cycling" and "Cycling under the influence of drink or drugs". All can be dealt with only by way of a fine and the same problems of enforcement and punishment prevail.
No speed limits apply to cyclists. Speeding offences are prosecuted under s89 of the Road Traffic Regulations Act. This begins:
"A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."
The limits only apply to drivers of motor vehicles. Apart from that, even if cyclists were subject to the limit, there is the not inconsiderable problem of enforcement. Pedal cycles are not registered and have no registration mark; any action could therefore only follow from a stop by the police. Cyclists need no licence so a fine would be the only sanction; penalty points or disqualification are not options.
There are offences of "Dangerous Cycling", "Careless Cycling" and "Cycling under the influence of drink or drugs". All can be dealt with only by way of a fine and the same problems of enforcement and punishment prevail.
>>> Cyclists need no licence so a fine would be the only sanction; penalty points or disqualification are not options
The absence of a licence for cyclists doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't be banned from cycling. Courts already ban people from lots of activities that don't require a licence. (For example, sex offenders can be banned from going near to public playgrounds, fraudsters can be banned from holding directorships, stalkers can be banned from going near to their victims' home and people convicted of booze-fuelled crimes can be banned from consuming alcohol. None of those are activities that require a licence). So banning someone from cycling, if the law was amended to make provision for it, wouldn't be impossible.
The absence of a licence for cyclists doesn't necessarily mean that they couldn't be banned from cycling. Courts already ban people from lots of activities that don't require a licence. (For example, sex offenders can be banned from going near to public playgrounds, fraudsters can be banned from holding directorships, stalkers can be banned from going near to their victims' home and people convicted of booze-fuelled crimes can be banned from consuming alcohol. None of those are activities that require a licence). So banning someone from cycling, if the law was amended to make provision for it, wouldn't be impossible.
Edinburgh council tried that trick too TCL, with the same results for both vote and punishment of motorists.
I wonder if it's the same kind of things with politicians and sparrows learning to peck through the foil tops on milk bottles.
Either that or they're unimaginative, vindictive and invariably wrong thinking. The place is now a straggly car park.
I wonder if it's the same kind of things with politicians and sparrows learning to peck through the foil tops on milk bottles.
Either that or they're unimaginative, vindictive and invariably wrong thinking. The place is now a straggly car park.
Over the past seven years there have been 25 pedestrians killed in accidents with bikes and another 700 seriously injured – meaning roughly two people every week are being killed or badly hurt in crashes with bikes. My wife was very nearly one more fatality. A mad loon going well over 30mph down the main high street. In the middle of the road.
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