Abortion U.s

[Paigntonian]

Two things I don't understand in regards to the overturning of Roe v Wade.
1. Is it not the case that women choosing to have an abortion can/could do so by taking pills available via the Internet?
2.Can criminalising those who carry out abortions, doctors etc, be anything but pointless when a need for abortions will inevitably be fulfilled by back streets practitioners causing more deaths and adverse health outcomes?

[Spicerack]

Looking at some of these uninformed answers you can see why somebody tried to assassinate Judge Kavanaugh. (and how he got through the airport with his 'assassin's kit'.

[naomi24]

This thing about ‘women having control over their own bodies’ is misleading. That gives the impression that all are sophisticated and intelligent enough to make sensible decisions - but it neglects to account for those who are horribly abused or who have mental health issues - or the young who are not necessarily capable of making the ‘right’ choices on their journey to adulthood. Curious that most vocal anti-abortionists here are men. It reminds me of a friend who, as a midwife, had over the years, delivered umpteen babies and said that until she had one of her own she had no idea what having a baby was like. Not a clue.

I foresee more unwanted children doomed to a life of neglect, poverty and all the harsh realities that go with that. Will the anti-abortionists take responsibility for that?

[Togo]

//It reminds me of a friend who, as a midwife, had over the years, delivered umpteen babies and said that until she had one of her own she had no idea what having a baby was like. Not a clue.//

That of course was not the fault of her parents/parent, or her lack of insight and imagination. It can seemingly however be used as an unlikely example of a reason for a, confected, lack of empathy accusation.

[fender62]

the pro life supporters if you have noticed are mostly white caucasian upper middle class, hardly a black face there, no thought of the abject poverty to a lot non whites, talk of spiralling poverty in ghettos and the underclasses, population boom of such classes, who's going to fix it...oh the charities ermm yea right, check millions..all it says is, your feckin avin it, and lots of poor whites as well, again your avin it rape poverty or not.

[calmck]

Having worked as a nurse in the US I found that the most vocal anti abortionists were men. However when I asked one such man to please foster a Rubella baby he was aghast that I would ask anyone to foster a blind, deaf mentally deficient baby boy with heart problems. I said that this was the result of the child's father refusing to let the mother terminate the pregnancy.

[naomi24]

Togo, It wasn’t an accusation of a lack of empathy but rather an example of the inability of the inexperienced to comprehend. Then we have those who, for reasons of misguided ‘morality’ are unwilling to acknowledge reality. ‘Adoption is a viable alternative’ cries one bright spark who considers very relevant questions asinine - but the harsh reality is that unwanted children are more often than not doomed to a life of misery, unloved and uncared for by parents who would rather they hadn’t been born at all - and nothing comes harsher to a child than that.

[Spicerack]

Yeah, right, cal.

[fender62]

calmck, great observation and it's very sad but truly, the medical costs are astronomic as you probably know, and adoption is a nice idea, that does not reflect on reality, oh ill have a nice white baby, thousands of none white babies no one will want...that is sad, but true also true.

[bednobs]

i think it's a subject difficult to have any sort of informed opinion on till you've experienced it. I always thought that a decision was easy - i'd never have an abortion and frankly women that do were sort of manky or stupid - after all you can prevent pregnancies, right?
cut to 2017 when in my early 40s i was pregnant with a much longed for baby and my waters broke at 20 weeks. With no chance of limping through until viability, and me becoming very unwell with the start of sepsis, i was faced with a choice between having an abortion in the form of an injection to kill the baby, trying to carry on the pregnancy and face the very real and escalating risk my other daughter would be motherless or having an abortion via labour being started knowing there was no chance of the baby surviving beyond a few minutes, if at all. The decisions didnt seem so easy then.

[barry1010]

I feel for you, bednobs. Men may not have the physical trauma of abortion, nor the very heavy burden on making that decision, but they can feel the loss and grieve, feel guilty and sometimes extremely angry.
I don't think an abortion is ever a light decision.

[Togo]

Naomi, we have had a succession of anecdotes giving examples of babies born with Rubella, the result of rape, or grooming. Many more such less than everyday examples are, I'm sure, waiting to be waved like a shroud of culpibility at evil control freak men. As yet no one has aknowledged the casual, almost reckless, behaviour of some women(Can I still call them that? I notice that the ones who want to be other known by other pronouns in all other cases are, so I should get away with it.) who have somehow got to a mindset that assumes that abortion is just another parachute in the downward trend financed by the social care systems. There were almost 630,000 abortions performed in the US in 2019(no figures available subsequently that I can find) How many of those were for due to Rubella etc., other congenital conditions, or rape/sex crime? If it was all of them, or even 10%, then the US has bigger issues than abortion rights as a given.

[Ellipsis]

I am for the kind of choice that women in California have. But I also agree with, say, Togo, that this choice is one that should be made by the people.

If people living in abortion-banning states can't make the system work for them, overturning such bans and throwing out the people who put them in place, then maybe the USA is not the great democracy it claims to be.

[Peter Pedant]

// but it neglects to account for those who are horribly abused or who have mental health issues - or the young who are not necessarily capable of making the ‘right’ choices on their journey to adulthood. //

no it doesnt
consent in this country adequately takes into account mental health - you have to be pretty damn crazy to have the power to decide taken away from you

and consent in young people is well trodden - sort of graded, so consent to smallpox vaccine is less important to consent to a renal transpant....
altho I cant seriously see a child being tied down and transplanted if they were stoopid enough to say no....

refusal of consent has a different set of cases, but again is well worn/trodden in the courts.

as someone said - the answers on AB on this subject are ....... roughly typical

the text is here - in case you want something more meaty than the usual scrawny AB fare

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/21pdf/19-1392_6j37.pdf

[fender62]

call it what you will, you want a baby by choice! fine, don't tell others they have to carry one if they do not want to, the state has no right to tell a person you have to..simple, democracy stilted.

[dave50]

Embryos are not babies, they are a collection of cells. To try to call it a baby is ridiculous. Take the religion out of it for goodness sake.

[fender62]

dave50, exactly...minus the religious nuts, every sprog is sacred...

[fender62]

let's not forget the worlds over populated to saturation point, but hey..
it's the man in the sky watching us...seconding cumming oxymoron..
guess what, he it aint coming never was, god took a vacation..

[Ellipsis]

It's tempting to see it as a religious issue, but it's actually a political issue. The problem is that too many people vote on the basis of religious dogma, and not enough people vote against them ... so far. Hopefully they will in future.

[237SJ]

"Embryos are not babies, they are collection of cells" That depends how far on they are, to be fair

[Peter Pedant]

// behaviour of some women(Can I still call them that?//
yeah toag - I have checked - women still have babies
jesus
carry on carping....

If adoption worked then there wouldnt be any Children's homes.

BN - I am sure your doctors didnt say: oh just a little chill
and much more: if you delay you are likely to die.