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Double Jabbed Can Still Spread Covid
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We know that...but now we can see how high the rate is. Just be careful everyone.
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//If they were not tested at all they would still be able to go to work or school. You don’t need a negative test to go to work.//
Your out of touch.
Some employers now require it and its not hard to see why - they dont want people taking time off just in case, they want to be sure people coming in arent going to infect there team and cause bigger problems, and also it helps people feel safer at work if they know there colleagues are negative. I know people who have to scan their LTF and send in a photo of it at regular intervals.
Better safe than sorry.
We dont say why bother doing regular womens breast scans each year cos only 5% have cancer lumps. Or its a waste of time checking passengers for knives and guns getting on a plane as 99% dont have one. or checking for untaxed cars because only 5% arent taxed.
Your out of touch.
Some employers now require it and its not hard to see why - they dont want people taking time off just in case, they want to be sure people coming in arent going to infect there team and cause bigger problems, and also it helps people feel safer at work if they know there colleagues are negative. I know people who have to scan their LTF and send in a photo of it at regular intervals.
Better safe than sorry.
We dont say why bother doing regular womens breast scans each year cos only 5% have cancer lumps. Or its a waste of time checking passengers for knives and guns getting on a plane as 99% dont have one. or checking for untaxed cars because only 5% arent taxed.
The number of new cases reported may seem high and is linked to numbers tested but it still understate's the actual number of cases . Thats because it obviously misses those who dont do a test who have covid but dont know it (no symtoms) and those who know they have it but keep quiet or dont test because they want to just carry on.
There are other surveys done which show the actual rates and numbers. Its currently 1.5 million case's in UK which is double what it was 4 months ago.
More importantly and more worrying the hospital cases and deaths are still rising despite all the vaccines. And yet some are still saying why bother testing!
There are other surveys done which show the actual rates and numbers. Its currently 1.5 million case's in UK which is double what it was 4 months ago.
More importantly and more worrying the hospital cases and deaths are still rising despite all the vaccines. And yet some are still saying why bother testing!
The UK has undertaken more than 4,500 tests per 1,000 of the population. The daily average for the UK for the month of October is 902,000, Corby (source is the same as your 325m cumulative came from). With a population of (say) 67m this means one person in 74 is being tested daily.
There’s a useful chart here:
https:/
This shows that on October 17th (the latest date for which figures are available for all three countries) the UK’s 7 Day rolling average of daily tests was 13.55 per 1,000 people. This works out at about 908,000 tests which ties in with the figures above. The same figure for France was 6.11 and that for Germany was 1.42. So on that day, the UK’s average number of tests per thousand people was 2.2 times that of France and 9.5 times that of Germany. It must be blindingly obvious that if you are testing ten times as many people you are likely to find far more infections. Germany’s seven day average of new infections up to 17th October was 9,300 so you would expect the UK’s to be around 90,000. In fact it was 41,900. So when it is said we have one of the highest incidences of infections in Europe that is incorrect. What it means is that we have found the highest number in Europe. If other countries looked so diligently they might find a few more, but they don’t seem to feel the need.
The question needs to be asked that if Germany sees fit to run tests at only 10% of the UK’s level, which strategy is right? In my view it is absolutely pointless to continue to tests huge numbers of people who are not ill, and huge numbers who test negative. It is a completely pointless exercise with the pandemic at the stage it is here in the UK. Testing people entering from abroad is even more pointless. I’ve just returned from a region where I’d stand far more chance of contracting the virus in my home town than where I visited. Yet I had to go through the ridiculous rigmarole of testing myself two days after I’d returned, with a result not declared until three days after that. Had I tested positive, by the time I had known about it I would have been home for five days. I’d been to a restaurant, a pub on some buses and in some shops in that time. It’s an absolute farce (but eighty quid for the testing factory to do the business for Mrs NJ and me).
// We dont say why bother doing regular womens breast scans each year cos only 5% have cancer lumps. Or its a waste of time checking passengers for knives and guns getting on a plane as 99% dont have one. or checking for untaxed cars because only 5% arent taxed.//
Sorry, bob, but that is a completely non-equivalent argument. One weapon smuggled onto an aircraft can have serious consequences. Women undergo breast screening because breast cancer is a serious illness with a high mortality rate. For the overwhelming majority of people, Covid is not. Furthermore, breast cancer if detected early can be treated. There is no such urgency for somebody with asymptomatic Covid. Just as an aside, cancer is responsible for four times as many deaths each day as Covid currently is (even allowing for the questionable way in which Covid deaths are recorded).
There’s a useful chart here:
https:/
This shows that on October 17th (the latest date for which figures are available for all three countries) the UK’s 7 Day rolling average of daily tests was 13.55 per 1,000 people. This works out at about 908,000 tests which ties in with the figures above. The same figure for France was 6.11 and that for Germany was 1.42. So on that day, the UK’s average number of tests per thousand people was 2.2 times that of France and 9.5 times that of Germany. It must be blindingly obvious that if you are testing ten times as many people you are likely to find far more infections. Germany’s seven day average of new infections up to 17th October was 9,300 so you would expect the UK’s to be around 90,000. In fact it was 41,900. So when it is said we have one of the highest incidences of infections in Europe that is incorrect. What it means is that we have found the highest number in Europe. If other countries looked so diligently they might find a few more, but they don’t seem to feel the need.
The question needs to be asked that if Germany sees fit to run tests at only 10% of the UK’s level, which strategy is right? In my view it is absolutely pointless to continue to tests huge numbers of people who are not ill, and huge numbers who test negative. It is a completely pointless exercise with the pandemic at the stage it is here in the UK. Testing people entering from abroad is even more pointless. I’ve just returned from a region where I’d stand far more chance of contracting the virus in my home town than where I visited. Yet I had to go through the ridiculous rigmarole of testing myself two days after I’d returned, with a result not declared until three days after that. Had I tested positive, by the time I had known about it I would have been home for five days. I’d been to a restaurant, a pub on some buses and in some shops in that time. It’s an absolute farce (but eighty quid for the testing factory to do the business for Mrs NJ and me).
// We dont say why bother doing regular womens breast scans each year cos only 5% have cancer lumps. Or its a waste of time checking passengers for knives and guns getting on a plane as 99% dont have one. or checking for untaxed cars because only 5% arent taxed.//
Sorry, bob, but that is a completely non-equivalent argument. One weapon smuggled onto an aircraft can have serious consequences. Women undergo breast screening because breast cancer is a serious illness with a high mortality rate. For the overwhelming majority of people, Covid is not. Furthermore, breast cancer if detected early can be treated. There is no such urgency for somebody with asymptomatic Covid. Just as an aside, cancer is responsible for four times as many deaths each day as Covid currently is (even allowing for the questionable way in which Covid deaths are recorded).
//There is no such urgency for somebody with asymptomatic Covid.//
There is if we want to try to get this thing under some sort of control, If we dont test and just let people pass it on we can get variants and the spreading will carry on.
Or maybe your accepting we can live with 200 covid deaths a day and rising, pressure on hospitals and constant disruption to schools with absent pupil's and teacher's, shortages of key staff whose ill with covid, risk's of hospital overload in winter and postponed operations, and possible further restrictions coming soon this winter. The health authorities, scientists and goverment and virtually all doctors other parties dont agree with you.
There is if we want to try to get this thing under some sort of control, If we dont test and just let people pass it on we can get variants and the spreading will carry on.
Or maybe your accepting we can live with 200 covid deaths a day and rising, pressure on hospitals and constant disruption to schools with absent pupil's and teacher's, shortages of key staff whose ill with covid, risk's of hospital overload in winter and postponed operations, and possible further restrictions coming soon this winter. The health authorities, scientists and goverment and virtually all doctors other parties dont agree with you.
Its odd that at one time people were saying we were'nt testing enough. Now some are saying we test too many. They cant win really. I agree its not comparing like with like with other country's but we after do whats right for us. Maybe we'er right and there wrong. We also need to work harder though because here in UK people are less willing to cooperate whereas in some other European countries people readily do whats asked on masks and showing vaccine proof to go in bars, no arguing or wingeing as far as I saw
NJ, the number of tests each day gives no indication as to how many individuals have been tested previously.
You can compare the total number of tests per country but unless the data specify the number of individuals tested in each, I cannot see how you can give proportions of the populations tested.
You can compare the total number of tests per country but unless the data specify the number of individuals tested in each, I cannot see how you can give proportions of the populations tested.
//There is if we want to try to get this thing under some sort of control,...//
As I've been saying for 18 months, we cannot "control" a virus. It will spread whatever we do. All types of measures have been tried and all have largely failed. The only measure which will work is what I call "house arrest" (which I explained was not an emotive term, just a term to describe 24/7 confinement). The best we can do is delay the spread until a vaccine or suitable treatment is found (which we've done).
//Or maybe your accepting we can live with 200 covid deaths a day and rising, pressure on hospitals...//
I'm afraid we must (and so-called Covid deaths are running at 150 a day, not 200). As well as that, some rigorous examination of what are counted as "Covid deaths" is required.
//...and constant disruption to schools with absent pupil's and teacher's,//
The main reason for disruption in schools is because they are testing pupils unnecessarily. Few pupils or their teachers are actually ill. One of them tests positive so the class is sent home. Don't test and it won't happen.
//...risk's of hospital overload in winter and postponed operations,//
The NHS has been in crisis, especially in the winter, for as long as I can remember. This coming winter will be no different. The service is unfit for purpose and will continue to be so whilst it is run the way it is. No effort has been made to increase capacity nor to increase efficiency since last year and the same problems will materialise this year, except that Covid, because of the vaccination programme, will not be anywhere near such a serious problem as it was. But the NHS would still be in crisis if there was no Covid at all.
//The health authorities, scientists and goverment and virtually all doctors other parties dont agree with you.//
No other country in Europe undertakes testing to anything like the degree here in the UK. It is completely unnecessary for the vast majority of those tested, it is not achieving its aim and all it is doing is preventing the country from returning to something like normal. This means living with the virus instead of pointlessly trying to "control" it.
As I've been saying for 18 months, we cannot "control" a virus. It will spread whatever we do. All types of measures have been tried and all have largely failed. The only measure which will work is what I call "house arrest" (which I explained was not an emotive term, just a term to describe 24/7 confinement). The best we can do is delay the spread until a vaccine or suitable treatment is found (which we've done).
//Or maybe your accepting we can live with 200 covid deaths a day and rising, pressure on hospitals...//
I'm afraid we must (and so-called Covid deaths are running at 150 a day, not 200). As well as that, some rigorous examination of what are counted as "Covid deaths" is required.
//...and constant disruption to schools with absent pupil's and teacher's,//
The main reason for disruption in schools is because they are testing pupils unnecessarily. Few pupils or their teachers are actually ill. One of them tests positive so the class is sent home. Don't test and it won't happen.
//...risk's of hospital overload in winter and postponed operations,//
The NHS has been in crisis, especially in the winter, for as long as I can remember. This coming winter will be no different. The service is unfit for purpose and will continue to be so whilst it is run the way it is. No effort has been made to increase capacity nor to increase efficiency since last year and the same problems will materialise this year, except that Covid, because of the vaccination programme, will not be anywhere near such a serious problem as it was. But the NHS would still be in crisis if there was no Covid at all.
//The health authorities, scientists and goverment and virtually all doctors other parties dont agree with you.//
No other country in Europe undertakes testing to anything like the degree here in the UK. It is completely unnecessary for the vast majority of those tested, it is not achieving its aim and all it is doing is preventing the country from returning to something like normal. This means living with the virus instead of pointlessly trying to "control" it.
//NJ, the number of tests each day gives no indication as to how many individuals have been tested previously.//
I don't see that it makes any difference, Corby. There is no doubt that some people in the UK are being tested multiple times. we have carried out 325m tests among a population of 67m. The fact remains that the UK is carry out tests at ten times the rate per head of population that in Germany. Whether those tests are on the same or different people is really immaterial. All it's doing is causing the type of disruption to which bob refers (and burning through wedges of taxpayers' money). It's doing nothing to curb the spread of the virus. I will repeat again, this virus (along with all the other's we've ever encountered) will spread. There is nothing we can do to prevent it and fannying about testing people over and over will not do so.
I don't see that it makes any difference, Corby. There is no doubt that some people in the UK are being tested multiple times. we have carried out 325m tests among a population of 67m. The fact remains that the UK is carry out tests at ten times the rate per head of population that in Germany. Whether those tests are on the same or different people is really immaterial. All it's doing is causing the type of disruption to which bob refers (and burning through wedges of taxpayers' money). It's doing nothing to curb the spread of the virus. I will repeat again, this virus (along with all the other's we've ever encountered) will spread. There is nothing we can do to prevent it and fannying about testing people over and over will not do so.
I don’t get this continual testing either. Unlike all of the experts on AB, and there appears to be many, I don’t understand the science.
From a personal perspective, we’ve had five confirmed cases of Covid in the office over the past two weeks, two of whom play in the same vets rugby team and have just returned from a tour, and the suspicion is they caught it on tour and passed it onto the other three. The office was closed on Wednesday for a deep clean - I was the only person in the office to let the cleaners in (it’s an office of 70 people), and by god they we’re thorough - they had all
manner of machinery and chemicals, and they pretty much sterilised the place. Despite this I received about a dozen emails from people (probably in collusion) saying they felt unsafe and that the office should be shut for a week and even people with no symptoms should test daily to prove a negative.
Cynically it’s my belief they just wanted to stay at home.
After the deep clean all were told their attendance was required and expected otherwise they’d be considered AWOL, and the bitching was off the scale.
From a personal perspective, we’ve had five confirmed cases of Covid in the office over the past two weeks, two of whom play in the same vets rugby team and have just returned from a tour, and the suspicion is they caught it on tour and passed it onto the other three. The office was closed on Wednesday for a deep clean - I was the only person in the office to let the cleaners in (it’s an office of 70 people), and by god they we’re thorough - they had all
manner of machinery and chemicals, and they pretty much sterilised the place. Despite this I received about a dozen emails from people (probably in collusion) saying they felt unsafe and that the office should be shut for a week and even people with no symptoms should test daily to prove a negative.
Cynically it’s my belief they just wanted to stay at home.
After the deep clean all were told their attendance was required and expected otherwise they’d be considered AWOL, and the bitching was off the scale.
NJ, you are confusing the total number of tests with the number of individuals tested.
I quoted a figure of 325,738,621 virus tests in the UK.
You claimed one in sixty-five of the population had been tested so that is almost one million.
If only one million have been tested but there have been 325,738,621 tests, that means that on average, each of those folk has been tested almost 326 times.
Is that likely?
I quoted a figure of 325,738,621 virus tests in the UK.
You claimed one in sixty-five of the population had been tested so that is almost one million.
If only one million have been tested but there have been 325,738,621 tests, that means that on average, each of those folk has been tested almost 326 times.
Is that likely?
//You claimed one in sixty-five of the population had been tested so that is almost one million.//
Indeed, Corby and I've either confused the issue or we're talking about different things. I've not really commented on the 325m other than to remark that it is almost five times as many as the entire population, so quite a few people must have been tested multiple times.
The one in 65 figure I quoted was a single day's testing. A million tests among a 65m people. I modified that a little later to one in 74 when I had some accurate figures (902,000 - which was a seven day average - in a more accurate population of 67m). Assuming that nobody was tested twice on the same day (which I think is a reasonable assumption), this means one in 74 people was tested on the day in question. That has nothing to do with the total number of tests so sorry if I've caused confusion.
Indeed, Corby and I've either confused the issue or we're talking about different things. I've not really commented on the 325m other than to remark that it is almost five times as many as the entire population, so quite a few people must have been tested multiple times.
The one in 65 figure I quoted was a single day's testing. A million tests among a 65m people. I modified that a little later to one in 74 when I had some accurate figures (902,000 - which was a seven day average - in a more accurate population of 67m). Assuming that nobody was tested twice on the same day (which I think is a reasonable assumption), this means one in 74 people was tested on the day in question. That has nothing to do with the total number of tests so sorry if I've caused confusion.
Totally agree Shirley.
The fact is there’s a lot of people who have revelled in Covid and have loved the lockdowns and restrictions and they don’t want them to end.
Covid, for the double jabbed, is little more than an inconvenience now, and I speak from some authority having tested positive a few weeks ago but with no ill effects.
The Covid worshippers, and there’s quite a few on this site, have loved it.
The fact is there’s a lot of people who have revelled in Covid and have loved the lockdowns and restrictions and they don’t want them to end.
Covid, for the double jabbed, is little more than an inconvenience now, and I speak from some authority having tested positive a few weeks ago but with no ill effects.
The Covid worshippers, and there’s quite a few on this site, have loved it.
Indeed, dd. It's very sad and worrying. I am simply gobsmacked by the way many of the population have effectively ceded control over their lives to the government for fear of a disease which you rightly say is now a mild inconvenience for 99.9% of sufferers. I believe even the government is amazed at what they have got away with. But I should not be so surprised when the government employs a "Behavioural Insight Team" and who took it upon themselves to adopt, as part of their early strategy, deliberately instilling fear into the population.
I really don't get how worried people are. The figure that matters is how many people are actually DYING of Covid. The rate can be as high as it likes (and we test more than other countries) but it really doesn't matter. I don't want to catch Covid, but, even with asthma, now I'm vaccinated I am unlikely to die from it. That's what concerns me and that is all that should concern anyone. If you chose to be unvaccinated then you had your own reasons for doing so and should not be counted in the stats..
I have an interest, in that Mr. J2 fits the bill for the vaccinated few who are dying of it (O.85 and with other health issues) but we are ignoring any threat and getting on with our lives. It feels better that way than ending your lives sheltering like rabbits in a hole to avoid life - or death.
I have an interest, in that Mr. J2 fits the bill for the vaccinated few who are dying of it (O.85 and with other health issues) but we are ignoring any threat and getting on with our lives. It feels better that way than ending your lives sheltering like rabbits in a hole to avoid life - or death.
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