News4 mins ago
Pakistan Closes Border To Afghan Refugees
70 Answers
Nice to see the nearby muslim countries are doing their bit - not
What a surprise
Very rude considering they harboured the Taliban for so long
https:/
What a surprise
Very rude considering they harboured the Taliban for so long
https:/
Answers
//Please do not pretend you are deeply concerned about Afghanistan.
13:47 Thu 19th Aug 2021
//Yes I admit there is drift of course. Are all those 80,000 war refugees?//
Drift? 80,000 people "drifting"?
No, I doubt any of them are "war refugees". They are mainly economic migrants who have upped sticks because they don't like it where they were born and have roamed all over the place before reaching here. I I imagine the total is far higher because the 80k are only those we know about.
When those 600-odd people stormed the USAF Globemaster a few days ago they were not war refugees. There was no war taking place. There was simply a change of regime which they did not like the look of. Their first instinct in those circumstances is to flee. Sorry, but the time has come for the rest of the world to tell them that they must remain and sort it out. Their own army and security forces have evaporated, despite having had huge sums spent on them by the West over the last twenty years. They vanished in the space of a few weeks. Now those that are there expect to find sanctuary in the West. Well there's no room.
Drift? 80,000 people "drifting"?
No, I doubt any of them are "war refugees". They are mainly economic migrants who have upped sticks because they don't like it where they were born and have roamed all over the place before reaching here. I I imagine the total is far higher because the 80k are only those we know about.
When those 600-odd people stormed the USAF Globemaster a few days ago they were not war refugees. There was no war taking place. There was simply a change of regime which they did not like the look of. Their first instinct in those circumstances is to flee. Sorry, but the time has come for the rest of the world to tell them that they must remain and sort it out. Their own army and security forces have evaporated, despite having had huge sums spent on them by the West over the last twenty years. They vanished in the space of a few weeks. Now those that are there expect to find sanctuary in the West. Well there's no room.
"There was simply a change of regime which they did not like the look of."
What a foolish thing to say... this is the understatement of the century. You'd run away from the taliban in 5 seconds if you had any sense... they are murderous thugs who will kill anyone in their way... What you have just written denies the very concept of a refugee as valid. These people are fleeing real life-threatening danger.
Please do not pretend you are deeply concerned about Afghanistan... it is obvious you just don't want them here.
What a foolish thing to say... this is the understatement of the century. You'd run away from the taliban in 5 seconds if you had any sense... they are murderous thugs who will kill anyone in their way... What you have just written denies the very concept of a refugee as valid. These people are fleeing real life-threatening danger.
Please do not pretend you are deeply concerned about Afghanistan... it is obvious you just don't want them here.
//Please do not pretend you are deeply concerned about Afghanistan... it is obvious you just don't want them here.//
There is no pretence. I am not in the least concerned about Afghanistan other than the effect the events there will have on the UK. The country is ungovernable by (what we consider to be) conventional means. The problem the West has with it is that it expects to be able to turn it into a liberal democracy and that’s impossible. My view of it is that it can only be governed by ruthless dictatorship. The Taliban is Afghanistan’s version of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein. Its people (in the main) do not understand democracy; they do not understand the rule of law; they do not understand (what we consider to be) civilised society. And, no, I don’t want them here. There’s nowhere for them to live and we don’t have the money to lavish on them. I have never made any pretence about that either.
The people at Kabul airport this week were not in any direct danger (apart from the danger they posed to themselves by clinging to moving aircraft); they were not under threat. In fact there was nobody there threatening them at all. They may have feared for their future, but by that token, half of the population of Asia and Africa could be deemed to be under threat. That’s not justification for them to flee. The logical end game to your idea that they should all be afforded refugee status is that Europe and the USA should allow the entire population of places like Afghanistan and Syria to settle within its shores. This is simply impossible so I do indeed deny the concept of refugee status. It needs radically redefining.
//out of interest new judge when your villa in greece was caught in a forest fire (you mentioned it on another thread) did you expect any assistance or did you sort the fire out yourself?//
I expected the Greek Fire Brigade to sort it out (which they did). If my house in England catches fire I expect my local fire brigade to attend (that’s what I pay my taxes for). I do not expect troops from overseas to be permanently stationed here to deal with such an eventuality and nor would I expect to be permitted to permanently move to somewhere like Monaco because of my displacement. I’d have to remain here and sort out my problems. Fire brigades were first formed here by insurers following the Great Fire of London and municipal fire brigades began in the early 1800s. They are part of the formal infrastructure which places like Afghanistan lack. Similarly we have a police force and an army which, together, I would expect to be used to quell a violent power grab by any group that felt like it. We've spent hundreds of years refining those resources. Afghanistan had an sizeable army, trained and equipped by the West over the last two decades. It evaporated virtually overnight. So what's the West to do? Spend another 20 years and $250bn to do it all again? I don't think so. At some stage Western leaders may heed the advice of our former PM, Harold MacMillan: "The first rule of politics: don't invade Afghanistan." If US Presidents don't heed that advice at least you would expect UK Prime Ministers to learn from history.
There is no pretence. I am not in the least concerned about Afghanistan other than the effect the events there will have on the UK. The country is ungovernable by (what we consider to be) conventional means. The problem the West has with it is that it expects to be able to turn it into a liberal democracy and that’s impossible. My view of it is that it can only be governed by ruthless dictatorship. The Taliban is Afghanistan’s version of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein. Its people (in the main) do not understand democracy; they do not understand the rule of law; they do not understand (what we consider to be) civilised society. And, no, I don’t want them here. There’s nowhere for them to live and we don’t have the money to lavish on them. I have never made any pretence about that either.
The people at Kabul airport this week were not in any direct danger (apart from the danger they posed to themselves by clinging to moving aircraft); they were not under threat. In fact there was nobody there threatening them at all. They may have feared for their future, but by that token, half of the population of Asia and Africa could be deemed to be under threat. That’s not justification for them to flee. The logical end game to your idea that they should all be afforded refugee status is that Europe and the USA should allow the entire population of places like Afghanistan and Syria to settle within its shores. This is simply impossible so I do indeed deny the concept of refugee status. It needs radically redefining.
//out of interest new judge when your villa in greece was caught in a forest fire (you mentioned it on another thread) did you expect any assistance or did you sort the fire out yourself?//
I expected the Greek Fire Brigade to sort it out (which they did). If my house in England catches fire I expect my local fire brigade to attend (that’s what I pay my taxes for). I do not expect troops from overseas to be permanently stationed here to deal with such an eventuality and nor would I expect to be permitted to permanently move to somewhere like Monaco because of my displacement. I’d have to remain here and sort out my problems. Fire brigades were first formed here by insurers following the Great Fire of London and municipal fire brigades began in the early 1800s. They are part of the formal infrastructure which places like Afghanistan lack. Similarly we have a police force and an army which, together, I would expect to be used to quell a violent power grab by any group that felt like it. We've spent hundreds of years refining those resources. Afghanistan had an sizeable army, trained and equipped by the West over the last two decades. It evaporated virtually overnight. So what's the West to do? Spend another 20 years and $250bn to do it all again? I don't think so. At some stage Western leaders may heed the advice of our former PM, Harold MacMillan: "The first rule of politics: don't invade Afghanistan." If US Presidents don't heed that advice at least you would expect UK Prime Ministers to learn from history.
Yes they are in danger new judge…. and i think you know that. The taliban fired into a group of demonstrators just today and killed loads of them. They have no army to protect them… It sounds to me like you’d rather they be dead in afghanistan than anywhere near here if given the choice. The west - and also Pakistan more than us as they have supported the taliban - are responsible for this situation… we have a duty to people we have screwed over.
“ I expected the Greek Fire Brigade to sort it out (which they did). If my house in England catches fire I expect my local fire brigade to attend (that’s what I pay my taxes for).”
Really? It sounds to me like there was simply a change in temperature that you didn’t like the look of. Your first instinct in those circumstances was apparently to flee. Sorry, but why didn’t you just remain and sort it out yourself instead of relying on others to do it for you?
“ I expected the Greek Fire Brigade to sort it out (which they did). If my house in England catches fire I expect my local fire brigade to attend (that’s what I pay my taxes for).”
Really? It sounds to me like there was simply a change in temperature that you didn’t like the look of. Your first instinct in those circumstances was apparently to flee. Sorry, but why didn’t you just remain and sort it out yourself instead of relying on others to do it for you?
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