Gordon Brown, "Uk Could Become A Failed State" ......

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/pm-must-reform-the-union-or-risk-uk-becoming-a-failed-state-12198125
Well if it does it'll be primarily your beloved Noo Labour's fault me old china, for enacting the devolution catastrophe. Is it time to reverse that and bring the Union back together? TBH I think England will thrive without the millstones of Wales, Scotland and NI anyway so it's them that need to get their April in gear.

[naomi24]

According to the BBC website without Scotland the rest could and probably would still be called the UK.

Sorry I can’t post the link from my phone but this is a pointless argument.

[ichkeria]

Scotland would still be part of GB but not part of the UK.
So, as I said before at least twice .... :-)

As to dissolving the union tho it wouldn’t. When the Kingdoms of Scotland and England United in 1707 they became the Kingdom of Great Britain.
The UK only became the UK when Ireland joined. So the “union” is at least a reflection of union with Ireland or a part of it as anything

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "I explained why it could no longer be called the "Union of Great Britain and N Ireland" while still a Union.
If the full name of the EU was "the European Union of ....... and The UK", that would change too, but it wasn't so it hasn't " - Scotland is not mentioned in the name, Great Britain is more than England and Scotland.

[naomi24]

Ichkeria, we know Scotland wouldn’t be part of the UK. The rest would though.

[ichkeria]

I know. That is what I am saying.
Sone say the full name wouldn’t change, but it would.
Some say it would no longer be a union, but it would.
What happens when NI departs - if it does - would be more problematic

[ichkeria]

“ Great Britain is more than England and Scotland.”

Yes but that has nothing to do with it.
The point is it would no longer still be a union involving all of GB
Still a UK tho

[THECORBYLOON]

I seen that until 26th March 1953, the Queen's Royal Style was, "By the Grace of God, of Great Britain, Ireland, and of the British Dominions beyond the Seas, Queen, Defender of the Faith"

It was only later that the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland were mentioned in her Style.

It seems there was no United Kingdom in the Twentieth Century under three and a bit Monarchs, the current Queen and Kings George VI, Edward VIII and George V.

Perhaps then, it could be just GB & NI with no Scotland?

[ToraToraTora]

ich: "Yes but that has nothing to do with it. " - well yours and others arguments are predicated on the fact that Scotland is included in "Great Britain" so I'd say for you are least it is relevant. it would be a union with the remaining 92% of GB.

[ToraToraTora]

TCL: "Perhaps then, it could be just GB & NI with no Scotland? " - yes it would be The United Kingdom of GB and NI" - as now, I rest my case.

[Untitled]

Would not be a brilliant start to our path as an “independent” nation again would it? Leaves the EU and promptly breaks apart :/

[THECORBYLOON]

The 92% figure refers to the rest of the UK, not Great Britain.

[Untitled]

How on earth can it be the UK of GB when scotland is not in it... you really are making yourself seem quite silly tora...

[ToraToraTora]

"The 92% figure refers to the rest of the UK, not Great Britain. " - it refers to how much if GB will still be GB is Scotland leave.

[ToraToraTora]

untitled: we've gone around this circle, you are looking silly, beating this to death with no logic evidence or reasoning. Go and find me an expert that backs your view. My view is the status quo and I do not claim it will change.

[ToraToraTora]

just spouting your opinion with nothing to back it up over and over is no way to convince someone of your view.

[THECORBYLOON]

I meant just GB & NI with no United Kingdom. There was no UK in the Queen's original Royal Style and the original "United" referred to the united Crowns of Scotland and England.

[THECORBYLOON]

TORATORATORA, find me your expert to back up your opinion, not just a member of the public writing to a newspaper.

[ToraToraTora]

TCL: no need It's the status quo, I'm not claiming it will change, you can't prove a negative. I'm looking for one "expert" on the whole of the WWW that backs your view, and I have been searching myself but I cannot find anyone that says the UK will be over if Scotland leave.

[Ellipsis]

Tora, when the country in which you now live was called Great Britain, which it was between 1707 and 1801, what did Great Britain refer to: the island on which you stand, or the union of England and Scotland that was created by the Acts of Union of 1707?

There is an answer to this question, and it's not "both".

It's the Acts of Union. Before that, you would have been living in England, not Great Britain. You would have been living on Great Britain, the island, in England, the country. The country of Great Britain was created by the union of England and Scotland. And that's the thing now referred to in the full name of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[ToraToraTora]

you keep talking about history, I'm talking about the future.