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324 Covid Deaths Yesterday, And 2,095 Cases Are They Easing Lockdown Too Early ?
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Ken, we could set up something like those war graves cemeteries, with a big monument saying "In memory of those who gave their lives for the economy".
12:13 Sat 30th May 2020
Pensioners aren’t being asked to abandon lockdown. They can stay at home forever if they so choose - but how difficult is it to understand that people who don’t have an income need money to pay their mortgages/rent and to feed their families? Without business, there are no jobs. No jobs equals no money - anywhere - even to pay pensions. The government can’t continue to prop the country’s workforce indefinitely because without business and jobs no tax is paid and eventually there’s nothing left in the pot - even for pensioners - and heaven forbid - the NHS.
Jim, //But I still find it staggering that an economic model that is incapable of coping with a short "pause" for a month is the only model available. //
This isn’t a month but that aside, I see no alternative to the current system. What do you suggest?
Jim, //But I still find it staggering that an economic model that is incapable of coping with a short "pause" for a month is the only model available. //
This isn’t a month but that aside, I see no alternative to the current system. What do you suggest?
daisy-whilst I agree that many pensioners have paid into the state system=m for many years I think you'll find that a pensioner living to 80+ will have paid in far less in terms of NI than they draw in pensions. A pensioner getting £150pw pension for 20 years will receive a pension totalling £150000. If they worked for 40 years earning £500pwthey'll have paid around £80000 in NICs. Most pensions are actually being paid for by those in work and from general taxation
Indeed Naomi.
It is so breathtakingly obvious that the longer the lockdown goes on the worse it will be for millions and millions of people, that I genuinely find it bizarre that people want it to continue.
I maintain that those who want it to continue are largely unaffected, other than those who are unaffected but know how the economy works.
It is so breathtakingly obvious that the longer the lockdown goes on the worse it will be for millions and millions of people, that I genuinely find it bizarre that people want it to continue.
I maintain that those who want it to continue are largely unaffected, other than those who are unaffected but know how the economy works.
I've said already that those most ardent about lockdown continuing are largely the financially unaffected. What we have lost here is choice, let people choose the risks they want to take. I fully understand why some are scared but they can stay home for as long as they like, end of lockdown doesn't force you to go out.
My parents and my in-laws are financially unaffected but they are all keen for lockdown to end as they appreciate that the economy is in free-fall. They are not fearful for themselves, but for their children and their grandchildren. Plus they're sick of being prisoners in their own homes and they missing seeing their family.
//That’s a bit like saying we have to let 2 Boeing 737s crash everyday to save the aviation industry.//
First prize for the most ridiculous statement of the Covid crisis.
//Lockdown is killing people? Shops have to open to save lives?//
It isn’t only shops. Lockdown is killing the economy and the economy needs to be healthy to save lives – all lives including Covid. Up to now the government has simply been borrowing money. It’s borrowed more in a month than it planned to borrow in the entire year. That cannot go on. With the economy stagnant the bond market (where the money is raised) will dry up. It only works when there is underlying confidence in the economy and so long as the lockdown exists that confidence is draining away. So, the next thing to do is to print money which becomes ever more worthless. Once that happens the government will have no money, what money the population has will be worth progressively less, there will no money for fuel (to power such things as ambulances and delivery lorries), no money for the NHS and only worthless money to pay the staff. They will demand ever bigger pay increases as the value of their pay diminishes; that means printing more money (I think you get the picture).
Ironically the people who will suffer the most in such a scenario are the very people who are currently being accused, above, of sitting pretty – those on fixed incomes. There is no way that either the State or commercial pension schemes can cope with high inflation. Many commercial schemes are already struggling. When those opposed to Brexit were trying to have it cancelled there were howls from the Europhiles that Brexit was killing the future for young people. Well if the economy is trashed much further, those young people, and their children and probably their grandchildren will be living in an parlous state for most of their lives.
There simply is no decision to make about lifting the lockdown. The government cannot protect everybody against everything, and from time to time *** happens. If a second wave occurs it will have to be dealt with because one thing’s for sure, if the economy suffers from a second wave of Covid in the same way as it has from the first it will be completely finished. As an aside the death rate is not the issue when it comes to the spread of the disease. You could have a very high infection rate but few deaths or a very low infection rate and all those infected die. Going on about the comparative death rates is pointless.
//Double figures daily. That is still 500+ a week.//
Ten a day is 70 a week.
First prize for the most ridiculous statement of the Covid crisis.
//Lockdown is killing people? Shops have to open to save lives?//
It isn’t only shops. Lockdown is killing the economy and the economy needs to be healthy to save lives – all lives including Covid. Up to now the government has simply been borrowing money. It’s borrowed more in a month than it planned to borrow in the entire year. That cannot go on. With the economy stagnant the bond market (where the money is raised) will dry up. It only works when there is underlying confidence in the economy and so long as the lockdown exists that confidence is draining away. So, the next thing to do is to print money which becomes ever more worthless. Once that happens the government will have no money, what money the population has will be worth progressively less, there will no money for fuel (to power such things as ambulances and delivery lorries), no money for the NHS and only worthless money to pay the staff. They will demand ever bigger pay increases as the value of their pay diminishes; that means printing more money (I think you get the picture).
Ironically the people who will suffer the most in such a scenario are the very people who are currently being accused, above, of sitting pretty – those on fixed incomes. There is no way that either the State or commercial pension schemes can cope with high inflation. Many commercial schemes are already struggling. When those opposed to Brexit were trying to have it cancelled there were howls from the Europhiles that Brexit was killing the future for young people. Well if the economy is trashed much further, those young people, and their children and probably their grandchildren will be living in an parlous state for most of their lives.
There simply is no decision to make about lifting the lockdown. The government cannot protect everybody against everything, and from time to time *** happens. If a second wave occurs it will have to be dealt with because one thing’s for sure, if the economy suffers from a second wave of Covid in the same way as it has from the first it will be completely finished. As an aside the death rate is not the issue when it comes to the spread of the disease. You could have a very high infection rate but few deaths or a very low infection rate and all those infected die. Going on about the comparative death rates is pointless.
//Double figures daily. That is still 500+ a week.//
Ten a day is 70 a week.
I see longer term benefits in maintaining a steady infection rate, including a reduction in the pensioner\care\ healthcare load from an ageing population. Historically "plagues and pandemics" have thinned out the non productive members of the population. We fight to change this natural process when I am not even sure we should. As a non productive member myself I am aware I am a social liability
//A pensioner getting £150pw pension for 20 years will receive a pension totalling £150000. If they worked for 40 years earning £500pwthey'll have paid around £80000 in NICs.//
But it’s not quite as simple as that is it? First of all in a proper pension scheme the contributions are invested and provide growth. It is hardly State pensioners’ fault that the scheme is run like a gigantic Ponzi scheme. As well as that, because of the scheme’s iniquities, there is no proper relationship between contributions and benefits. A person earning £1,000 per week will have made around £196,000 in contributions (at today’s rates, which is all we can realistically use for these simple calculations). But he, too, will get the same pension as the person who paid in £80,000. So will the person earning £1,500 a week who paid in £216k. Meanwhile the person who spent his life earning the minimum wage (say £350pw) will have paid in just over £41k, but still enjoy benefits totalling £150k. And of course I haven’t even begun to consider those who never work at all but still receive a “pension” (aka retirement age benefits usually in the guise of “Pension Credit”).
The State pension scheme is not a good example if you want to examine money in vs money out.
But it’s not quite as simple as that is it? First of all in a proper pension scheme the contributions are invested and provide growth. It is hardly State pensioners’ fault that the scheme is run like a gigantic Ponzi scheme. As well as that, because of the scheme’s iniquities, there is no proper relationship between contributions and benefits. A person earning £1,000 per week will have made around £196,000 in contributions (at today’s rates, which is all we can realistically use for these simple calculations). But he, too, will get the same pension as the person who paid in £80,000. So will the person earning £1,500 a week who paid in £216k. Meanwhile the person who spent his life earning the minimum wage (say £350pw) will have paid in just over £41k, but still enjoy benefits totalling £150k. And of course I haven’t even begun to consider those who never work at all but still receive a “pension” (aka retirement age benefits usually in the guise of “Pension Credit”).
The State pension scheme is not a good example if you want to examine money in vs money out.
// The State pension scheme is not a good example if you want to examine money in vs money out.//
i knew after you mentioned a number greater than fwee it was gonna be bad. the state pension is not a pension scheme - which you kinda really knew but were keeping it er quiet - and the nat ins legislation is now is framed as a tax - which I am sure as a judge on pensions you were aware as well.
and so .... are they easing lock down too earlyW - well I think the scientists have broken ranks - because their advice HASN;T been followed and they dont want the inevitiable " there you see ! modelling in this case is crap and in general is even crapper". which we hear from your lips every week NJ
i knew after you mentioned a number greater than fwee it was gonna be bad. the state pension is not a pension scheme - which you kinda really knew but were keeping it er quiet - and the nat ins legislation is now is framed as a tax - which I am sure as a judge on pensions you were aware as well.
and so .... are they easing lock down too earlyW - well I think the scientists have broken ranks - because their advice HASN;T been followed and they dont want the inevitiable " there you see ! modelling in this case is crap and in general is even crapper". which we hear from your lips every week NJ
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