Should The Senior Officers Of The London Fire Brigade Be Prosecuted?

[anotheoldgit]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-brigade-report-public-inquiry-prosecution-a9177686.html

[spathiphyllum]

"But the action plan was based on evidence that people are more likely to survive in a NORMAL tower block fire if they stay put."

Bit of a dumb plan innit?

Even a 3 year old can tell you if a building is on fire, ur best not in it.

[dannyk13]

The official enquiry into Grenfell Tower has found the fire brigade to have been remiss so somebody at the top is responsible,particularly whoever decided to tell the occupants to stay.

[youngmafbog]

Zacs @ 11:48 couldnt put it better myself.

[spathiphyllum]

Along with who ever approved the cheap tatty cladding. (cough conservative government cough) tory ***.

[spathiphyllum]

They're a public service department they should serve the public and their safety not follow stupid orders telling people to stay put in a roaring blaze.

Some common sense could have been utilised to say "Nah, F that i'm not going to let innocents burn because of protocol". They knew it wasn't a normal fire on arrival.

[dannyk13]

Spath, planning permission(re cladding) is not the responsibility of the government. It is a local authority matter.

[youngmafbog]

The Tory Government approved the fitting of the cladding on Grenfall, really?

[retrocop]

Trust one moron to use this tragedy to make a cheap political point. :-(

[anotheoldgit]

The FIREFIGHTERS should not be blamed in anyway those on the front line do an excellent job, it is those sitting behind their desks of high office who should take the blame for their wrong decisions, who said the buck stops there?

[Gromit]

London Fire Brigade planned for a totally different fire, because an inferno such as Grenfell wasn’t supposed to happen. They followed the correct procedures, but they were, with hindsight, flawed procedures.
Unfortunately it takes a tragedy such as this to point out what is wrong with the advice. No one had planned for this, so it wasn’t possible on the night to deviate from the accepted wisdom at the time.

[davebro]

And if the firefighters on scene had attempted to carry out an evacuation but people died in the stairwells etc. they would have been pilloried/prosecuted for not following laid down procedures.

[spathiphyllum]

So they applied the wrong techniques to a fire they knew was different to that they've been trained on.... ???

And bare people died.

That's not OK.

[dannyk13]

So far the official enquiry has only dealt with the actions of the fire brigade.They have yet to enquire into the cause and any blame when it reconvenes.

[Zacs-Master]

'They knew it wasn't a normal fire on arrival'

I've already pointed out that the fact that by the time they arrived the fire was raging. The plan didn't work.

I'm so pleased you think you know better than the Fire Authority and Fire Consultants who study these things professionally, spath. Your breadth of knowledge on any given subject never ceases to......be typically nonfactual.

[Prudie]

Without a doubt the stay put procedure had been properly assessed and 100% believed to be the correct way at the time.
Procedures change, lessons are learned - it's not exactly an analogy but take how medical advice has changed over time - eg lay your baby on its stomach, then lay your baby on its back, then lay your baby on its side. The Senior Officers were doing what thy believed to be the best at the time. Were it not for Grenfell that may still be their preferred method. Of course they should not be prosecuted.

[spathiphyllum]

If i'm trained to peel oranges and i'm called out to a peeling and I see an apple, then I act on intuition and i don't start peeling it as if it was an orange.

You'd think you were trained for such a situation..

[ludwig]

// Should The Senior Officers Of The London Fire Brigade Be Prosecuted? //

No. It would be a ridiculous and unfair thing to do.

[douglas9401]

Fire fighters should not be scapegoated for incompetence in planning, installation and authorisation.

This thread though does at least illustrate how easy it is for normal, rational people to be pushed to breaking point by the hard of thinking and their inability/unwillingness to think things through before spewing their drivel.

[youngmafbog]

The stay put method may still be relevant in some case and may well save lives.

Unfortunately this particular case shows that it does have its flaws.

But then hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially for armchair judges.

[spathiphyllum]

"Your breadth of knowledge on any given subject never ceases to......be typically nonfactual."

I've actually had training on such topics, so no it's not nonsense. It's common sense. Something that lacks here.

When you arrive at a fire, you then asses it. You don't assume it's a certain type, that's how they get progressively worse and that's how people die.

Example? Grenfell.

I'm not saying the fire bridge or senior officers should be punished, but certainly evaluated.

Those who cheeped out by putting the shoddy cladding on the building, should be heavily fined, maybe punished legally.