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Brexit. Elephant In The Room ?

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derekpara | 15:44 Sun 19th May 2019 | News
23 Answers
Do you think that the real people behind all this Brexit delay and chaos are the civil servants, who really pull the strings and co-erce the Prime Minister and pro Brexit negotiators into doing their will ? Not that TM need much co-ersion !

Shades of ' Yes, Minister' ?

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//The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal.// That’s not quite the case. No Member of Parliament with any integrity (if there are any) could have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement. It is the sort of Treaty that should only be signed following defeat in a war. The reason that Brexit has not been...
16:57 Sun 19th May 2019
Who knows? We need someone who actually wants to leave, in charge though, apparently...
No.
The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal.
Nothing to do with Civil Servants.
jim // No // I really find it hard to understand you sometimes.
Theresa May's Chief negotiator was the civil servant and arch-remainer, Olly Robbins, they loved him in the EU and he was "the darling of Brussels" because he complied with everything they wanted, he was Mays poodle and instigator of the infamous 600 page 'deal' .

BUT;
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1126975/brexit-news-latest-olly-robbins-iain-duncan-smith-today-timeline-referendum-date-uk-eu
//The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal.//

That’s not quite the case.

No Member of Parliament with any integrity (if there are any) could have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement. It is the sort of Treaty that should only be signed following defeat in a war. The reason that Brexit has not been completed is because the Commons have decided that we cannot leave without a deal and the only deal on offer is totally unacceptable to anybody other than those who would prefer we remained.

The infamous “deal” was almost certainly concocted by Civil Servants (on both sides). What intrigues me is how on Earth Mrs May believed it would ever have been agreed by Parliament. That august body is supposed to be acting in the best interests of the UK. Quite how it could do that by acquiescing to the total capitulation that is the basis of the Agreement is somewhat hard to fathom. I can see that, most of the country can see that. But Mrs May, apparently, cannot.
Three cheers for Gina Miller then eh?
ichi; I said above I find it hard to understand jim sometimes but you I'm afraid, never.
Shall I explain?
Gina Miller was the one who forced the government to put the Brexit Deal to a vote.
This rescuing pure Brexit from those nefarious Civil Servants.
Take an irony tablet and you’ll get it ;-)
It took over 12 years of negociation to get into the EU ! So getting out is NOT going to be easy ! Many entire sections of our law will have to be totally rewritten ! Lawyers are rubbing their hands in glee as they hear the cash jingling into their tills !!!
well most of the civil servants are remainers so it can't help.
ich; "The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal. " - oh dear oh dear, the "deal" was never going to be accepted, it angered all sides of the HOQ in equal measure, even brexiteers say remaining is better. Maybe that was the point. The main reason we have not left is because most of the establishment don't want it to happen.
Civil Servants tend to last longer than governments do, so it's not exactly new that the individuals are against some, most or all of the policies of their political masters. It doesn't make a difference. The job of a Civil Servant is to implement the policy regardless. If it's bad policy, then it won't go well, but that is generally not their fault.

It's complete nonsense, and a political cop-out, to blame Civil Servants for this mess.
Please use the correct word when talking about the "deal". It's a treaty which, as NJ observes, is a capitulation not an agreement between equals, although, unlike NJ, I think it was drafted exclusively by the EU's lawyers. Like other treaties signed by the vanquished, e.g. the Treaty of Versailles, it demands war reparations and the surrender of territory.

Versailles, of course, led to Hitler. (Anybody watch the recent two-parter on BBC "Hitler: the Rise of Evil", by the way?) It would be nice to think that the Brexit betrayal led to a determined, though British and principled resistance. Unfortunately the only likely response will be a sullen resentment and contempt for our parliamentary "representatives" and their allies in the media.
The drafting of the codacil to the treaty, the so-called "political declaration", was probably delegated to a junior secretary. "Hey, Françoise, knock out a few pages about the future relationship. Nothing too specific, you understand. Make sure you use the word 'commitment' a few times."
“Corbynistas” don’t rule the roost in parliament. Most Labour MPs are voting against the Brexit Deal as it fails the “five tests” so-called.
Certainly many in the party outside Parliament (and a few in), might like a no deal Brexit thinking that the ensuing economic problems would help Labour in a future election.
Other than that ... Naturally the opposition wants an election. Oppositions usually do if they think they might win :-)
there wont be an election, Cob cannot force one and the Tories/DUP wont allow one.
jim; //Civil Servants tend to last longer than governments do, //

There's no "tend to" in it, they do! and remaining in the EU makes their lives so much easier. The main plan is to have to do as little as possible, not rock the boat, ward off all obstacles to this, and hang on for retirement with a wonderful pension.
For them, Sir Humphrey wasn't so much a comedy character as a mentor.
"Many entire sections of our law will have to be totally rewritten !"

Not quite correct, Eddie.

The European Union Withdrawal Act (2018, not to be confused with the Letwin-Cooper Non-Withdrawal Act ostensibly of the same name but of 2019) provided for all existing EU law to be subsumed into UK law. Specifically (not my own words):

//To provide legal continuity, it will enable the transposition of directly-applicable already-existing EU law into UK law and so create a new category of domestic law for the United Kingdom: retained EU law. It will also give the government some restricted power to adapt and remove laws that are no longer relevant.//
Stuff and nonsense, Khandro, it really is. Civil Servants do their jobs far, far better than you're giving them credit for, and it's frankly pathetic that Brexit supporters are so desperate for excuses as to why their pet project is failing that they need to turn to the administrators instead of the politicians... or even the policy.
"....and it's frankly pathetic that Brexit supporters are so desperate for excuses as to why their pet project is failing"

It's not a "pet project", Jim. It was a decision made by more than 17m people to take the country in a different direction. For the record, I don't blame civil servants. They may influence politicians but the politicians have the final say. It is quite clear that recent decisions demonstrate that Mrs May is not enthralled to her civil servants (Huawei; the prosecution of ex-servicemen; border control and landing cards). Politicians take the glory; politicians take the blame. The blame for this debacle lies fairly and squarely with politicians of all parties and at all levels but the principle blame - on all levels - rests with Mrs May.
Rhetorical licence, I hope you'll permit some of that from time to time.

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