Migrants Stranded At Sea

[-SharonA-]

Italy is refusing to allow a boat with over 600 migrants to dock at it's ports. https://news.sky.com/story/italy-shuts-ports-to-rescue-ship-carrying-over-600-migrants-11401125. Good on Italy. I bet you ask those migrants where they're aiming for, I bet they say England!!

[vetuste_ennemi]

By the way, I hadn't forgotten the point Jim made in his post:

"We're used to a different, and better, standard of living... It's rather sad to see that anyone wanting ... that for themselves be cynically dismissed as a scrounger or "economic migrant""

There are other ways of helping the Third World than asking it to move to Europe, Jim. Aren't there many unilateral and co-operative policies to assist the poorer world?

[bainbrig]

Jim360.

Your post gives me some hope, Jim, that sensibility and moral strength will prevail over the low-level sub-intellectual reaction evident round here.

As you and the few other thoughtful minds have pointed out so succinctly (and yet so totally ignored by the witless) the solution must start at source, not by condemning another boatload of the poorest victims to death.

[Spicerack]

Fine words butter no parsnips, bigbrain.

[naomi24]

I don't think they're fine words. More ill-considered virtue signalling. No thought necessary.

[Jackdaw33]

// low-level sub-intellectual \\

Well, that's me told. Fortunately my university teachers had a different opinion.

[youngmafbog]

Just like all Brexiteers then JD!

[kvalidir]

^^ By George he's got it! I think he's got it!' ^^

[douglas9401]

It might be more cost effective to tie up the charidee boats and divert the funds to erecting billboards at regular departure points with posters informing the bewildered that despite what they've heard, their god is not merciful or all powerful and cannot save them from themselves or the waves.

Oh, and catch those who profit from all the misery and subject them to local justice without some well-meaning but essentially knobbish lawyers getting involved.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Hello, Kvalidir.

I addressed a what I thought was an"honest and reasonable" question earlier this afternoon (at 14:27) to those "honest and reasonable" people who welcome Third World immigration.

Jim replied at some length. I wonder if you'd like to have a go.

[Togo]

//low-level sub-intellectual//

A phrase tailored by the self absorbed non ratiocinative pretentious.

"Everybody has to feel superior to somebody. But it's customary to present a little proof before taking the privilege."

Truman Capote.

[david small]

I am rather miffed that certain people have either deliberately or unintentionally misunderstood my first post. I did not, and do not advocate murder. I pointed out extreme and exaggerated actions to highlight the helpless plight of all concerned. My point was for long term solutions to permanent problems. Stop having babies, equals less pain, misery, and heartache.

[jim360]

"There are other ways of helping the Third World than asking it to move to Europe, Jim."

That's true, but I suppose my point was that closing the door to migrants doesn't solve the problem either, and that seems to be about as far as many people on this thread have gone. The long-term solution requires making it more attractive for people to choose to stay where they are.

A lot of these people are coming from countries that are completely wrecked (eg Libya, Syria), and I don't think anyone would want to be in those countries at the moment, if they could help it. I am sure that someone will point out that not all migrants are from specifically those countries, but that's a distraction.

The solution isn't a return to colonialism, either, although I had hoped that that went without saying.

[-Talbot-]

I am sure that someone will point out that not all migrants are from specifically those countries, but that's a distraction.



So you're not to mention that economic migrants are making the situation for genuine refugees more difficult.
I won't mention it then.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Poorer nations, or those with expanding populations and declining resources will always envy richer nations, Jim. That's why we nations have borders and armies.

The moral argument of the Type 1s seems to be that Europe has a necessary moraL duty to share its wealth with anybody from the Third World who wants to come. I believe we have no such duty.

Which is not to say that we don't help to make poor countries richer. But as their relative poverty must in large part be laid at the feet of poor governance there's a limit to what we can do.

[jim360]

Of course, historically, richer nations have often wanted to take as much as they could from poorer nations, which is also why we had armies...

I don't know how much of a moral duty it is to help other nations, but certainly it's wrong to ignore their plight at the same time as complaining about their poor citizens wanting to move to pastures greener. What's the solution? I have no idea.

[Zacs-Master]

Surely it would depend on density of population? Compare Holland to Australia.

[Togo]

// I suppose my point was that closing the door to migrants doesn't solve the problem either, and that seems to be about as far as many people on this thread have gone.//

No Jim. When we have "closed the door" we may have some energy and resources left to address the problem at its birthplaces. Right now we are just firefighting. Whilst the fire starters are trying to assure us that they are the best people to dowse the flames.

[Zacs-Master]

At what point do we close the door?