Fox Hunt Killing.

[Khandro]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fox-hunting-great-thurlow-hunt-boxing-day-suffolk-police-investigation-illegal-killing-fox-a8129446.html

The Head of the Hunt said; "It's magnificent that so many well-wishers make such a huge effort to get here to show their support."

Do you think it is "magnificent"? Are you a "supporter"?

[mikey4444]

Khandro....11:13....that is a horrible story, and one repeated all over the country I would expect.

[mikey4444]

Kromo....( 13:14 )..... "So what if it's cruel to animals"

With respect, I don't think you have followed this debate very well.

Nobody is suggesting that foxes don't need to be controlled, if they become a nuisance. But your analogy with pigeons is entirely daft. Pigeons, along with other birds that become a nuisance are shot, humanely and quickly. They are not hunted to complete exhaustion, over miles of ground and then killed, to the evident pleasure of 1000's of supporters.

And your statement regarding pigeons ::::: "but nobody gets up in arms about them because they aren't cute" is even more patently risible. 100,000's of people in Britain raise pigeons and race them, even our own dear Queen.

I fail to see why this debate about blood sports can't be done with some common sense and rationality.

[tamborine]

Red fox pelts are valuable but only in good condition. Dogs tear foxes for a kill, destroying & devaluing pelts. Its stupid to deliberately waste a financial resource. Fox can be killed humanely by trapping & injection that saves the pelt.

[murraymints]

because Mikey..the usual suspects simply fail to accept they are very much in the minority and go on the offensive in a personally abusive manner when general opinion goes against them !

[B00]

I agree khandro.

As ive said previously, some of us do agree that maybe the fox population needs to be controlled. I'm fine with that ( possibly) as long as it's done as humanely and quickly as possible. What I have a problem with is the obvious pleasure that hunting and then killing of them brings some people. I genuinely cannot comprehend the mind set of these people.

[murraymints]

indeed Boo..there are ways and ways of doing things and pursuing a scared witless animal with intent to kill is barbaric and unnecessary...

[Jahulaye]

“Red fox pelts are valuable but only in good Condition”

If you wear a pelt you’ll still be hunted and torn to pieces but by animal rights campaigners or animal sympathisers

[EcclesCake]

Who are these 'usual suspects' MurrayMints?

[mikey4444]

I am convinced that May will not allow an attempt at repealing the hunting laws to take place, despite indicating in the run-up to this unnecessary Election that she would do so.

She is incompetent but not daft, after all....she will hardly risk her wafer-thin grip on power on such an issue.

But even if she does, I am firmly convinced that Parliament will not back her, when push comes to shove.

[murraymints]

I agree Mikey..

[Kromovaracun]

//With respect, I don't think you have followed this debate very well. //

I agree. I'm still very confused.

//Pigeons, along with other birds that become a nuisance are shot, humanely and quickly. //

How do you know it's humane? Shooting something is puncturing its vital organs with hot lead - instant death is extremely unlikely. If you're shooting a pigeon in flight, you're also causing it to crash to the ground, resulting in broken bones and likely excruciating pain until (if?) it is found and finally has its neck snapped. "Hunting humanely" is an oxymoron. There is not a humane way to hunt an animal.

My point was that pigeon culling does not carry anything like the same level of controversy or emotion as fox hunting does. Which seems obviously true to me even if it's not really provable. The only difference I can see is that foxes are cuter.

[Kromovaracun]

//the obvious pleasure that hunting and then killing of them brings some people.//

The fact that people enjoy it (and that you are horrified by it) is not a reason for it to be illegal, though.

[nailit]

//The fact that people enjoy it (and that you are horrified by it) is not a reason for it to be illegal, though. //
Lets bring back bear baiting and cock fighting then. Why we are at it lets bring back gladiators fighting to the death as well. People enjoyed them, no reason to be illegal.

[B00]

I never said it was, if that was the case morris dancing would be illegal too as that fills me with horror as well ;-)

I think you already know (and are playing devils advocate here) that it's the pain and distress they suffer, often for long periods, that I find so disgusting.

[mikey4444]

Kromo....hunting with dogs was made illegal because Parliament decided that it should be. If it could have been proved that it wasn't cruel, then is highly unlikely that the legislation would have gone through.

In the run up to the Act in 2004, various Polls were undertaken, and all of them, without exception, showed that the majority of people polled thought that hunting wild animals with dogs WAS cruel.

There is no wriggle-room here.

[Kromovaracun]

//Kromo....hunting with dogs was made illegal because Parliament decided that it should be. //

I understand that, I just think it was a stupid law. I'm also aware that it was popular, but I'm not really sure why that matters.

[Kromovaracun]

What I don't understand is...

a) why animal cruelty is a problem for the government
b) why some instances of cruelty are more controversial than others
c) why people think it's possible for hunting something to be humane.

[237SJ]

Some of the alternatives are explained here http://www.mfha.org.uk/component/content/article/26-foxhunting-the-facts/66-methods-of-fox-control

[Togo]

You do realise that foxes are themselves the kindest caringest of all the wild beasts don't you? Have you ever seen a hen or pigeon coop, or a cat, or a flock of geese or turkeys after a fox has administered it's cuddly attention. Meehh. The issue is purely about class hatred from what is just a mound of self righteousness. A mound constructed of you know what. Me? I couldn't care less if wallahs want to gallop about chasing foxes. Let em. Probably break their necks and I wouldn't care. I do not want a fox any where near where I live though thank you.

[mikey4444]

Togo....."The issue is purely about class hatred from what is just a mound of self righteousness"

With respect....testicles. Study the passing of the 2004 Act....widely supported by all party's, including the Tories.