Breaking News, Catalans Declare Independence From Spain.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41780116

[ToraToraTora]

kromo "Grossly irresponsible move by the Catalan govt, and one that puts both Spanish and Catalan lives in potential danger. " - it was caused by Madrid's ham fisted approach to the referendum they should have allowed it and implemented the result. You cannot keep a people by force, even the EUSSR have grasped that.

[jim360]

Perhaps the Spanish government were wary of the possibility that allowing a referendum without knowing the result beforehand invites the risk of people saying the opposite of what they were supposed to. :/

[youngmafbog]

They didn't need to implement the result if they put it up as an "advisory only" referendum. Even if it had gone the way of independence there are ways of handing it so it doesn't actually happen. The Spanish Government do seem to have lost the plot on this one, it can only end badly for all sides.

I personally dont see any parallels with Scotland. They had a legal referendum in which they voted to stay. In addition Spain wants to keep Catalonia whereas many Brits would happily wave goodbye to the whining Scots (Would be a shame about the nice ones but there you go).

[ToraToraTora]

Ce?

[ToraToraTora]

that was to jim

[Zacs-Master]

YMB, Jimmy K is always ratling on about another referendum. I'm sure she'll be keeping an eye on this one to see how it pans out.
The parallel is a devolved Gov't who are still under the authority of a main one.

[Zacs-Master]

Diod you mean Que? Tora.

[Old_Geezer]

Keeping an eye on whether they sedition hush,
and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Catalans to crush ?

[ichkeria]

Unfortunately - and possibly unfairly but there you go - the result of the referndum cannot really be taken seriously. It was not held in a spirit of consesnus by both pro and anti independence voters, quite apart from it being constitionally illegal. So there was never any possibility that a vote for independence in those circymstances could be implemented.
It is rather difficult to see what exactly the Catalan's motives can be. Catalonia can declare what it likes but it won't actually be independent, and not would many countries recognise it anyway.
So I daresay there will be a very delicate period and eventually Puigdemont will have to stand down and there will be elections, as he should havd declared today.
The Spanish govt also needs to be delicate in its handling of this.

[Zacs-Master]

'The Spanish govt also needs to be delicate in its handling of this.'

Mmm. Delicacy isn't a word usually associated with Spanish politics.

[youngmafbog]

Except ZM if they declare Independence most of the rest of the UK will be celebrating more than they!

Totally different to the Spanish.

[ToraToraTora]

well if JimmyK decares independence the "phew" from England will be heard in Spain!

[youngmafbog]

//The Spanish govt also needs to be delicate in its handling of this. //

Agreed, but I really cant see that happening. Unfortunately.

[Zacs-Master]

I didn't say it was exactly the same. Sheesh.

Agreed about the volume of the celebrations tho!

[naomi24]

youngmafbog, I agree.

[andy-hughes]

Brinksmanship and machismo, never a combination that is going to end well.

[ichkeria]

One almost feels that the Catalan authorities are willing an overreaction from Madrid. I fail really to see any other point to what they are doing. And I heard one nationalist say that Catalonia would stay in the EU unless Spain declared them o longer citizens of Europe? Beg pardon? So you’re independent and yet still avowedly at the mercy of Madrid for your EU membership??!! And you don’t need to be Nostradamus to see that if it came to it Spain would not recognise Catalonia at all

[mushroom25]

downing street have declared they will not recognize an independent catalunya. wonder if the Scottish and welsh authorities will pledge the same?

[ichkeria]

A friend of ours currently in Barcelona is convinced Puigdemont is fronting a lot of corrupt business interests. Lots of demos but calm, as you can see on the news

[Kromovaracun]

// it was caused by Madrid's ham fisted approach to the referendum//

Spanish authorities did severely overreact, but the referendum was illegal under both Spanish *and* Catalan law. The Catalan govt have been wilfully and deliberately provoking a confrontation with the authorities. Before that one incident a few weeks ago, nobody could seriously claim Catalonia was seriously marginalised or oppressed (the phrase "first world problems" springs to mind), but now it is on the brink of serious violence thanks to the irresponsible behaviour of its government whipping up a crisis.