Body & Soul2 mins ago
Bigots On Th E March In The State Of Virginia
Charlottesville: State of emergency over US far-right rally.
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"The mayor condemned the march as a "parade of hatred".
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"The mayor condemned the march as a "parade of hatred".
Answers
There really is no point descending into "whatabouter
09:52 Mon 14th Aug 2017
OG
There is surely a difference between commemorating something and recording it though, isn't there?
I can't really say I object to people taking down statues of Lenin or Stalin in E. Europe even though those statues are a valid part of those countries' heritage. Likewise, these statues of Lee were overwhelmingly raised at a time when the KKK dominated local governments and viciously enforced Jim Crow. Choosing to move on from that and stop celebrating Lee is not the same thing as forgetting him.
There is surely a difference between commemorating something and recording it though, isn't there?
I can't really say I object to people taking down statues of Lenin or Stalin in E. Europe even though those statues are a valid part of those countries' heritage. Likewise, these statues of Lee were overwhelmingly raised at a time when the KKK dominated local governments and viciously enforced Jim Crow. Choosing to move on from that and stop celebrating Lee is not the same thing as forgetting him.
Jim....I am bound to agree with you on that. He didn't really mean what he said the other day.....it was obvious that what he said wasn't his own words, as there was a distinct lack of the usual childish words and phrases.
Now he is back to his old self...using those silly, adolescent words that he is known for.
I feel so sorry for the America people......I know that he didn't win the popular vote last year, but they must be wondering how much worse his Presidency can get.
He has made America a laughing stock again, like it was under that liar, Trick Dicky.
Now he is back to his old self...using those silly, adolescent words that he is known for.
I feel so sorry for the America people......I know that he didn't win the popular vote last year, but they must be wondering how much worse his Presidency can get.
He has made America a laughing stock again, like it was under that liar, Trick Dicky.
Mikey/Jim, Don’t you think he should condemn violence on all sides, which is what he did in the first place? That surely demonstrates that he supports neither side. You allow your hatred of him to supplant all semblance of rationality.
Garaman, where Trump's concerned, Jim couldn't be fair if he tried.
Garaman, where Trump's concerned, Jim couldn't be fair if he tried.
Thing is that in his determination to apportion blame equally he's drawing a false equivalence between Nazis, racists and bigots on the one hand, and those opposing Nazis, racists and bigots on the other. Of course, there are people who are just going along to these things because they love a good old punch-up, and what makes me so angry about such people coming from, or grouped alongside, the left is that they allow the "both sides are to blame" rhetoric to emerge, and therefore allow the fascists to escape the true extent of the blame they should be given.
People went along initially with Nazi flags, and making Nazi salutes, and shouting Nazi slogans, and basically being Nazis. There is nothing that can possibly mitigate that fact. Trump adds that "some of the people [at the initial rally] were not Nazis". Sure. But they stood alongside Nazis, and gave them legitimacy and support that they do not deserve. Trump said that some on the left "charged with clubs". Possibly. Most people on the left were there just to counterprotest, and were themselves surrounded, or attacked; one ended up killed. Many in the initial march had come armed, too. And let me repeat: a lot of them were literally Nazis. There is no justification, no equivocation that should allow him to simply straight up say, "Such views are not welcome, and will never be welcome, here, and nothing on Earth will ever change that," without having to be dragged up to a pulpit and made to say so, two days later.
In a final display of hypocrisy, Trump insisted that he waited to make a statement because he wanted to know "all the facts" first. Since when has that ever stopped him jumping in before? If Trump doesn't like something, then he lets you know pretty quickly -- no pussyfooting around for him, whether or not there are "facts" that support his position. So waiting for two days sends its own message. He didn't condemn the initial protests because he didn't want to. Then he came out and did because he listened to advice for a change; unshackled after that, having said what he was told to say, he said what he really thought. And what he really thinks is pretty clear: the initial protesters, the ones who were literal Nazis, aren't as deserving of condemnation as the people who were there to oppose Nazism on US soil.
People went along initially with Nazi flags, and making Nazi salutes, and shouting Nazi slogans, and basically being Nazis. There is nothing that can possibly mitigate that fact. Trump adds that "some of the people [at the initial rally] were not Nazis". Sure. But they stood alongside Nazis, and gave them legitimacy and support that they do not deserve. Trump said that some on the left "charged with clubs". Possibly. Most people on the left were there just to counterprotest, and were themselves surrounded, or attacked; one ended up killed. Many in the initial march had come armed, too. And let me repeat: a lot of them were literally Nazis. There is no justification, no equivocation that should allow him to simply straight up say, "Such views are not welcome, and will never be welcome, here, and nothing on Earth will ever change that," without having to be dragged up to a pulpit and made to say so, two days later.
In a final display of hypocrisy, Trump insisted that he waited to make a statement because he wanted to know "all the facts" first. Since when has that ever stopped him jumping in before? If Trump doesn't like something, then he lets you know pretty quickly -- no pussyfooting around for him, whether or not there are "facts" that support his position. So waiting for two days sends its own message. He didn't condemn the initial protests because he didn't want to. Then he came out and did because he listened to advice for a change; unshackled after that, having said what he was told to say, he said what he really thought. And what he really thinks is pretty clear: the initial protesters, the ones who were literal Nazis, aren't as deserving of condemnation as the people who were there to oppose Nazism on US soil.
"Garaman, where Trump's concerned, Jim couldn't be fair if he tried."
I'll let Trump say it for me:
https:/
I'll let Trump say it for me:
https:/
Naomi...why can't you join in this debate without bad-mouthing other posters ?
Jim has every right to say what he does. First it was me, and now you seem to inflict your spite on Jim.
I would expect this sort of thing from some of our Usual Suspects but you have every appearance of being an intelligent and articulate woman, so why the spiteful comments ?
Jim has every right to say what he does. First it was me, and now you seem to inflict your spite on Jim.
I would expect this sort of thing from some of our Usual Suspects but you have every appearance of being an intelligent and articulate woman, so why the spiteful comments ?
Doesn't have any sound, Naomi, but I thought it had a caption.
Also, I suggest that you look back on my previous posts in this thread, including the very first one. I've already answered. Until his comments last night, I was trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I don't have doubt any more.
Also, I suggest that you look back on my previous posts in this thread, including the very first one. I've already answered. Until his comments last night, I was trying to give Trump the benefit of the doubt. I don't have doubt any more.
Mikey, your accusations of 'bad-mouthing', 'personal abuse', etc., always appear when you're asked a question that's difficult for you to answer.
I'm bad-mouthing no one. When it comes to Mr Trump, in my experience, both of you take every opportunity to criticise him in the strongest terms and therefore you aren't fair. Perhaps you'd care to answer my question.
I'm bad-mouthing no one. When it comes to Mr Trump, in my experience, both of you take every opportunity to criticise him in the strongest terms and therefore you aren't fair. Perhaps you'd care to answer my question.
He's reverted to type now I see, Trump, with yet more comments which seem to tar both "sides" with the same brush.
Amusingly, his defenders are claiming that he wished to find out the "facts" before speaking out. Which is commendabale, and would certainly make a pleasant change from previous outbursts.
Amusingly, his defenders are claiming that he wished to find out the "facts" before speaking out. Which is commendabale, and would certainly make a pleasant change from previous outbursts.
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