Does Anyone Still Think There Will Be A Referendum On Europe In 2017?

[Gromit]

and, if the Conservatives don't get a majority, isn't it rather undemocratic to proceed with one anyway?

[Hypognosis]

@TTT

Thank you. I don't know which way I would vote in such a referendum and I hope two years is sufficient time (provided the public debate comes to the forefront very soon after the new government is settled in) for me to take in all the information I will need to know. So far, all I am getting is that businesses and 'kippers are at odds over the EU.

[jno]

well, the argument is either:

It's such a major issue that it's vital we have a referendum on it

or

It's such a minor issue that people who could base their vote on it it now, won't bother.

[-Talbot-]

Dave will retire first.

[brionon]

We sell 70% of your exports to Europe so let's leave ????

[Hopkirk]

Have the Tories promised one?

Each time I heard David Cameron promise one, he said 'if I am prime minister'.

Whether Boris or Teresa would follow this isn't certain is it?

[jourdain2]

I know several people, who would never dream of voting other than Labour, who desperately want a referendum and believe in getting out of Europe.

Having lived in France for some time I also think that we need to disentangle from the toils of Europe. They cannot punish us for leaving (I've forgotten which arrangement/body prevents this, but it's there) and all that is needed is the re-establishment of the Free Trade Area. Then we can freely govern ourselves and trade with the rest of the world! Wow!

[jourdain2]

^^^ In other words, it isn't a one issue election. Sorry, hit the wrong button again.

[New Judge]

The arrangement that prevents us being "punished" for leaving is the Lisbon Treaty, jourdain. Article 50 says this: "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements."

There are also articles in place which compel the EU to establish trading agreements with ex-member states. Quite why anybody should believe that trade between the EU and the UK (should it leave) will suddenly come to a halt is quite beyond me.

[Old_Geezer]

I fail to see why this issue is either so important that all else in a party's manifesto can be ignored when voting for a representative at Westminster. It is major but not to the state that other things must be ignored.

This is the start of the often quoted fallacy that the elected government has a mandate to do everything they said they would. In fact the party that forms a government has scraped enough votes from people who felt that they were the best of a bad set of options; and few voters actually agree with everything the party claim they intend doing.

[ToraToraTora]

"Quite why anybody should believe that trade between the EU and the UK (should it leave) will suddenly come to a halt is quite beyond me. " standard EUphile BS judge, don't look for logic!

[Ellipsis]

My in-laws voted on the basis of avoiding a referendum. Ironic, as they are of the age to have taken part in the 1975 referendum, but now wish to deny the following two generations the opportunity to have their say. Baby boomers, eh?

[ToraToraTora]

yeah but they ddn't vote for what we have now did they!

[Ellipsis]

My point is that in 1975 they voted in a referendum to remain in the EU.

But now, 40 years later, they voted in the Election in a way designed to deny the following two generations the opportunity to vote in a referendum like they did in 1975.

I believe the likely outcome of such a referendum would be for the UK to remain in the EU, but I also believe that people should have the chance to vote on it.

[whiskeryron]

I do not think that being in or out of the EU should depend on party politics, it is far too important a subject to be left to the whims of politicians & really because it would appear that a substantial amount of people want a referendum it should be dealt with by the next government whoever they are.

[ToraToraTora]

well that's a new experience, I agree with ron!

[jourdain2]

Ellipsis, no we did not vote 'to remain in the EU' in 1975. I was there. We voted to be part of a Common Market, that's all. No-one would have voted to be part of the EU as we are now if they had known that that was what was planned.

[Ellipsis]

Sorry, yes, Common Market that morphed into the EU we have today.

Again, my point is that anybody under the age of 58 now did not have a chance to vote then, and now we have people over the age of 58, who did have a chance to vote then, voting specifically to prevent those younger people having a chance to make their opinions known now (even if those opinions are to stay in the EU).

[naomi24]

Ellipsis isn't talking about whether or not we stay in the EU - he's saying that the people who were happy to vote in the referendum in 1975 are now voting tactically in order to deprive today's generation of a vote in a new referendum. Well, that's how I'm reading it anyway.

[Ellipsis]

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, thank you ... :)

[naomi24]

You're welcome.