Is This The Start Of The Struggle Against Islamification?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30685842
Is the west finally waking up to what is happenning? Will this lead to more serious action?

[naomi24]

sp, //It would be as unwise for me to join such a group as it would to try and hold a same sex wedding in a mosque.//

No group is further right than fundamentalist Islam. For them it really is their way or no way – with no concessions whatsoever. Shame the defenders of Islam can’t see it.

//The neo-Nazis aren't too keen on the blacks.//

Islamists are not too keen on anyone – except other Islamists - but you seem to think that's acceptable.

[sp1814]

whirlyhurly

It's a common misconception:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politifact-most-muslim-countries-allow-churches-synagogues/1126477

A good point raised in the article is that there are no churches or synogogue in Mecca, but that's the holiest of Islamic cities...building a church there would be as inappropriate as building a synogogue in Vatican City.

[chaptazbru2]

In answer to the OP - I flamin' well hope so !!!!!

[ToraToraTora]

WH, whereas Islam is certainly less tolerant of opposition than most there are many churches in Islamic countries. eg Iran: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Iran

[sp1814]

Incidentally, just in case anyone thinks I'm defending hardline Muslim extremists, I'm not. I do not want me or my loved ones to be blown apart whilst travelling to work.

However, for the sake of argument, I'm trying to establish how solid some of the arguments are here.

Without any challenges, there is a rather strong chance that this thread will descent into (forgive me) a massive Islam circle jerk.

[Orderlimit]

Sp "What does 'Islamification' mean? Does that mean the cessation of halal meat production?"

I think FGM, domestic violence, homophobia, sexism. child abuse, sexual abuse and racism just to name a few may come before the halal meat thing SP, prob not in your cotton wool surroundings, dunno.

[naomi24]

sp, the point is if push ever comes to shove, hard line Islamists will defend Muslims – but your fate will be sealed – as will that of the rest of us – including all non-Muslim immigrants.

I’m curious to see your response to vetuste_ennemi. Any chance of addressing his question?

[sp1814]

naomi24

I should clarify...

Extremists of any persuasion are my enemy.

I think the confusion that some people have is that they expect gay people to automatically feel antipathy to Muslims.

It's slightly more complicated than that - personally, I only hate fundamentalist Imams who preach hatred for gay people.

I have no problem with Muslims in general - but then, I've grown up with them all my life.

Happy to clarify this, because from the outside, it must appear 'tricky'.

[sp1814]

Orderlimit

I'm trying to debate the points raised, and would like to try and remain polite and good humoured.

Your cotton wool comment is a bit off the mark. You don't really know me, and honest - that comment is way off the mark.

[sp1814]

naomi24

I already responded. It's on page three.

(Reprinted below):

[i]vetuste_ennemi - that certainly seems like a racist comment...but you never need to get someone else's confirmation on what you should feel. I may have a completely different outlook to you. [i]

[sp1814]

naomi24

You wrote:

"the point is if push ever comes to shove, hard line Islamists will defend Muslims"

I don't think that is true, as evidenced by the fact that there are serious divisions between different Islamic states and factions.

Sunni vs Shia, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria to name a few show that there is no 'Islam-wide' comradeship.

[naomi24]

sp, this isn't about gays, and that didn't occur to me. What you’re saying doesn’t appear tricky – it appears that you haven’t really thought it through. Fundamentalist Islam is no friend of any outsider - gay, straight, black, white, or sky blue pink.

[whirlyhurly]

Ah sp1814, but are churches being constructed nowadays to the same extent that we are allowing so many, many, mosques to be built here?

[naomi24]

sp, //evidenced by the fact that there are serious divisions between different Islamic states and factions. //

That's a different issue entirely and has no part in this discussion.

[sp1814]

naomi24

Ah...this is about fundamentalism.

Okay - I'm up to speed now.

From some of the other comments, I assumed that this was a thread about ALL Muslims.

If we're simply talking about extremists, then I am totally on the same page.

I'm sure that like most people, we all recognise at there is a world of difference between your everyday Muslim, and the rabid poppy-burners.

Don't want to sound rude, but I need to leave this thread now as I've not eaten all day and need a sandwich before I faint.

[RATTER15]

Sp, it only apples to those Muslims that wont leave their beliefs well behind their front door!

[Orderlimit]

(Sorry Sp,- re cotton wool comment)

[naomi24]

sp, This thread is about the influence that Islam is having upon the west.

I do wish you’d respond to vetuste_ennemi. Perhaps when you come back? Enjoy your lunch.

[retrocop]

I am surprised that this thread just seems to focus on Germany.The fuse has been fizzing in towns and cities in most European countries.Either the governments listen to the protests against Islamification and quench the fuse or they put their fingers in their ears,stick their heads up their arris rails and wait for the explosion. It is a fact that Christian missionaries,churches,synagogues and other non Islam places of worship are not widely tolerated. Please,no one try to persuade me they are.
It has become now like a tit for tat situation in Europe. The liberal right on governments wish to embrace diversity and welcome everyone to it's country. Then it steam rollers out of control. The tolerance and hospitality are seen as a weakness by the follows of Islam and they abuse and exploit there position and will infiltrate local and national government.They will try to increase the muslim population, refuse to integrate,impose their own laws and disregard the laws of their host country.They want to take over Europe and it has to be nipped in the bud sooner rather than later and the protesters are attempting to alert their myopic government leaders to this fact.It is no coincidence that Mr Farage has won a few seats much to the shock and horror of some people in this country who can't see the writing on the wall.

[mushroom25]

vetuste's error was in asking 2 back-to-back questions, of which SP has answered only the second.

Are you in politics, SP? that's a good politician response.

:-)