Crosswords1 min ago
Should We Shoot The Messenger?
29 Answers
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On Answerbank we periodically see the Daily Mail criticised for sensationalising, and also called The Daily Wail.
It that case are they wrong to highlight matters such as this?
Would some rather bury their heads in the sand and rather it not be discussed, hoping that it will go away?
On Answerbank we periodically see the Daily Mail criticised for sensationalising, and also called The Daily Wail.
It that case are they wrong to highlight matters such as this?
Would some rather bury their heads in the sand and rather it not be discussed, hoping that it will go away?
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Gromit
Not sure what the point of the story is?
You don't surprise me.
*** But in many African tribes, traditions are more important than laws and circumcision is considered a rite of passage that marks their transition into womanhood so they can marry. ***
We now have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, and since it is obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law, then this is what we should find disturbing.
Not sure what the point of the story is?
You don't surprise me.
*** But in many African tribes, traditions are more important than laws and circumcision is considered a rite of passage that marks their transition into womanhood so they can marry. ***
We now have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, and since it is obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law, then this is what we should find disturbing.
@AOG
//It that case are they wrong to highlight matters such as this? //
No, not wrong. They can publish anything they like, so long as it is factual.
It is somewhat patronising though. Anyone who is widely read or watches TV exposés about these things does not need to be told again. Every year there will be another set of still-innocent youngsters who have become old enough to know about this - and they need to be interested in the first place, to pay it any attention. Anyway, one annual reminder per newspaper or TV channel should be enough.
As usual, I prefer not to sent any click-based revenue to the DM by clicking on a story I don't need to be told.
//It that case are they wrong to highlight matters such as this? //
No, not wrong. They can publish anything they like, so long as it is factual.
It is somewhat patronising though. Anyone who is widely read or watches TV exposés about these things does not need to be told again. Every year there will be another set of still-innocent youngsters who have become old enough to know about this - and they need to be interested in the first place, to pay it any attention. Anyway, one annual reminder per newspaper or TV channel should be enough.
As usual, I prefer not to sent any click-based revenue to the DM by clicking on a story I don't need to be told.
// We now have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, and since it is obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law, then this is what we should find disturbing. //
We do not have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, we have some. This practice pertained to one tribe in Kenya, from the report, it is a minority activity affecting 25% of the population.
iI is not obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law,
that is your just your assumption. Even if it were true, the law wins everytime.
"this is what we should find disturbing. " - the story is about a ritual prcticed by a tribe in Kenya, it is not about the UK. There is FGM practiced here but I would bet not many of those are Pokot tribes people.
As I suspected, the story serves little other than to prove to Dail Mailers how superior we are to the backward Africans.
We do not have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, we have some. This practice pertained to one tribe in Kenya, from the report, it is a minority activity affecting 25% of the population.
iI is not obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law,
that is your just your assumption. Even if it were true, the law wins everytime.
"this is what we should find disturbing. " - the story is about a ritual prcticed by a tribe in Kenya, it is not about the UK. There is FGM practiced here but I would bet not many of those are Pokot tribes people.
As I suspected, the story serves little other than to prove to Dail Mailers how superior we are to the backward Africans.
Gromit
/// We do not have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, we have some. ///
I repeat, we have a large amount of Africans in this country.
*** The 2011 census put the number of African-born residents in England and Wales at 1.3 million, compared with 809,000 in 2001 - an increase of 62%. ***
African-born residents in England & Wales: 2001-2011
Country
2001 2011
Nigeria 86,958, 191,183, Increase 119.9%
South Africa 132,301 191,023 Increase 44.4%
Kenya 127,322 137,492 Increase 8%
Zimbabwe 47,157 118,348 Increase 151%
Source: England & Wales Census 2001 and 2011, ONS
/// iI is not obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law,
that is your just your assumption. Even if it were true, the law wins everytime. ///
Read what it says.
*** These pictures show frightened girls lined up before villagers in Kenya to be circumcised - even though the brutal practice is now illegal in the
country. ***
*** But in many African tribes, traditions are more important than laws and circumcision is considered a rite of passage that marks their transition into womanhood so they can marry. ***
/// We do not have a large amount of African immigrants in this country, we have some. ///
I repeat, we have a large amount of Africans in this country.
*** The 2011 census put the number of African-born residents in England and Wales at 1.3 million, compared with 809,000 in 2001 - an increase of 62%. ***
African-born residents in England & Wales: 2001-2011
Country
2001 2011
Nigeria 86,958, 191,183, Increase 119.9%
South Africa 132,301 191,023 Increase 44.4%
Kenya 127,322 137,492 Increase 8%
Zimbabwe 47,157 118,348 Increase 151%
Source: England & Wales Census 2001 and 2011, ONS
/// iI is not obvious that they class their traditions as more important than the law,
that is your just your assumption. Even if it were true, the law wins everytime. ///
Read what it says.
*** These pictures show frightened girls lined up before villagers in Kenya to be circumcised - even though the brutal practice is now illegal in the
country. ***
*** But in many African tribes, traditions are more important than laws and circumcision is considered a rite of passage that marks their transition into womanhood so they can marry. ***
It's terrible, but we can't police the world. We can try to convert through health agencies, but I don't hold out much hope. What we can do is to prevent it in the UK and this is going to need action which will be unpopular in some areas. Anyone who doesn't want to obey our laws and accept our standards in this is welcome to leave.
A difficulty is with the girls who are told that they are going on a 'holiday' back to Pakistan and end up mutilated but returned to UK. There is (or was, it's a couple of years ago) a steady trickle of these.
To answer the O.P.... Yes, these things need highlighting, no matter where the information comes from. It's a shame that the reputation of the D.M. can result in expositions such as these being relegated or ignored.
A difficulty is with the girls who are told that they are going on a 'holiday' back to Pakistan and end up mutilated but returned to UK. There is (or was, it's a couple of years ago) a steady trickle of these.
To answer the O.P.... Yes, these things need highlighting, no matter where the information comes from. It's a shame that the reputation of the D.M. can result in expositions such as these being relegated or ignored.
The thing about the Daily Mail is that they tell lies. Ok, all the tabloids do, but the DM seems to more than most.
They also follow an agenda that isn't very pleasant. They attack certain people and groups of people relentlessly. I use the word attack, not criticise but attack, because that's what they do.
It's a shame, because every now and then they tell a story that's contains some truth and is worth telling, and needs to be heard. The trouble is, no-one's listening any more because we've long since dismissed it as a nasty little gutter press rag.
If you don't like what I'm saying, all I can say is don't shoot the messenger.
They also follow an agenda that isn't very pleasant. They attack certain people and groups of people relentlessly. I use the word attack, not criticise but attack, because that's what they do.
It's a shame, because every now and then they tell a story that's contains some truth and is worth telling, and needs to be heard. The trouble is, no-one's listening any more because we've long since dismissed it as a nasty little gutter press rag.
If you don't like what I'm saying, all I can say is don't shoot the messenger.
The fact that the Mail is highlighting this barbaric practice is not of itself wrong, although it is sadly rather pointless since its readers have now influence whatever on primitive tribes in other countries.
However, it does not mitigate all the other nonsense that the Mail publishes, and is rightly criticised for on this site - especially its on-line site which is a daily diet of purient nonsense about the shapes of female celebrities.
However, it does not mitigate all the other nonsense that the Mail publishes, and is rightly criticised for on this site - especially its on-line site which is a daily diet of purient nonsense about the shapes of female celebrities.
No AOG, of course it's not wrong. It's right in fact imho. Female genital mutilation is a very big deal here for recent immigrant girls of African decent. It's such a big deal in fact that midwives in some areas are asked to identify mothers who have undergone FGM in order that they can be given information and education regarding it. since it is till practice to send adolescent girls back abroad to be mutilated it's a story very relavant to us and also to those countries who are seeking to stop it such as Kenya and the more information out there constantly nudging the public, the politicians, etc the better. The Guardian also covered this not long ago.
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Andy. Unless we can influence things the Daily Mail shouldn't print them? Things like this should be brought to people's attention regularly. We have to admit that it goes on in this country and nobody has been prosecuted under this law as yet. Glad you are slso another Daily Mail reader. But if you want Page 3 girls andcelebrities I should start reading red tops. The DM is a serious paper.
lindapalmara - "Andy. Unless we can influence things the Daily Mail shouldn't print them?"
That is not what I said - that is a conclusion you are dfrawing from my post which is baseless.
"Things like this should be brought to people's attention regularly. We have to admit that it goes on in this country and nobody has been prosecuted under this law as yet."
No argument there - but as Ludwig says, it does appear slanted on the primitivism of the practice, rather than any serious attempt to get it stopped - no mention of readers lobbying their MP for instance?
"But if you want Page 3 girls andcelebrities I should start reading red tops."
Why would I want Page 3 girls and celebrities - did you miss my cricitism of the Mail's on-line presence which talks about 'young gels' like it's 1958.
That is not what I said - that is a conclusion you are dfrawing from my post which is baseless.
"Things like this should be brought to people's attention regularly. We have to admit that it goes on in this country and nobody has been prosecuted under this law as yet."
No argument there - but as Ludwig says, it does appear slanted on the primitivism of the practice, rather than any serious attempt to get it stopped - no mention of readers lobbying their MP for instance?
"But if you want Page 3 girls andcelebrities I should start reading red tops."
Why would I want Page 3 girls and celebrities - did you miss my cricitism of the Mail's on-line presence which talks about 'young gels' like it's 1958.
andy-hughes
/// However, it does not mitigate all the other nonsense that the Mail publishes, and is rightly criticised for on this site - especially its on-line site which is a daily diet of purient nonsense about the shapes of female celebrities. ///
Seems funny then why it is the world's most popular newspaper web site, and the newspaper comes second in it's UK circulation figures.
Regarding the shapes of female celebrities, I have never noticed them simply because I don't go out of my way to look, just as I don't look into the Femail section or some of their other numerous speciality sections.
If you don't want to be offended by such things Andy, then the answer is simple, just don't look.
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/// However, it does not mitigate all the other nonsense that the Mail publishes, and is rightly criticised for on this site - especially its on-line site which is a daily diet of purient nonsense about the shapes of female celebrities. ///
Seems funny then why it is the world's most popular newspaper web site, and the newspaper comes second in it's UK circulation figures.
Regarding the shapes of female celebrities, I have never noticed them simply because I don't go out of my way to look, just as I don't look into the Femail section or some of their other numerous speciality sections.
If you don't want to be offended by such things Andy, then the answer is simple, just don't look.
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