Judy Finnigan

[Deskdiary]

When I saw the headlines this morning I had a sharp intake of breath - surely a woman wouldn't 'excuse' rape?

However, having now seen a transcript, what she actually said was (lifted from the BBC website);

"If he does go back, he will have to brave an awful lot of comments," said Finnigan during her debut appearance on the lunchtime programme.

"But, having said that, he has served his time, he's served two years.

"The rape - and I am not, please, by any means minimising any kind of rape - but the rape was not violent, he didn't cause any bodily harm to the person.

"It was unpleasant, in a hotel room I believe, and she [the victim] had far too much to drink.

"That is reprehensible but he has been convicted and he has served his time."

Ultimately she's right, isn't she?

As unpleasant as this man is, he has served his time, and therefore shouldn't he be allowed to continue to pursure his chosen career?

[andy-hughes]

Old_Geezer - "Merely indications on what makes two criminal acts one a worse experience for the victim than the other."

As men, we are unable to empathise regarding the trauma of rape for a woman - but as a woman, Ms Finnigan should not be in the business of grading the severity of rapes depending on the pleasantness of the surroundings, and the level of conciousness of the victim.

[Svejk]

I agree with OG and others. You seem rather 'out of step' on this, andy.

[andy-hughes]

Svejk - "I agree with OG and others. You seem rather 'out of step' on this, andy."

And deleriously happy so to be - thanks.

[ummmm]

You're being daft Andy. The type of sentencing men for rape is grading that rape on severity.

I think most women would do the same.

[ummmm]

*get

[Old_Geezer]

I think as men, if one can not imagine how it would feel, then that is a failing. Surely you could at least get an inkling out of imagining forced b*gg*ery inflicted upon your person ? I am wondering, since you seem rather vitriolic about this, has one of your family or friends been such a victim ? No offence meant but you do seem very emotional in your posts. Don't feel the need to answer if it has touched a 'sore spot'.

[Svejk]

What are you trying to say, andy. That rape is rape? Would you say murder is murder and theft is theft.

[andy-hughes]

Old_Geezer - "I think as men, if one can not imagine how it would feel, then that is a failing. Surely you could at least get an inkling out of imagining forced b*gg*ery inflicted upon your person ?"

That suggests that all I need to empathise is a vivid imagniation. I have one of those thank you - but that is not my point. It is not just the physical violation of rape that makes it such a dreadful crime, it is the remaining feeling of invasion and powerlessness that lives on in a victim's mind long after any physical injuries have healed. Oh, and I don't personally believe that lack of physical trauma lessens the impact in the slightest.

"I am wondering, since you seem rather vitriolic about this, has one of your family or friends been such a victim ? No offence meant but you do seem very emotional in your posts. Don't feel the need to answer if it has touched a 'sore spot'"

No, none of my family or friends have been victims, and I am not 'vitriolic', except in my contempt for Ms. Finnigan's attempted back-pedalling, which was as clumsy and ill-thought out as her original statements.

[andy-hughes]

Svejk - "What are you trying to say, andy. That rape is rape? Would you say murder is murder and theft is theft."

Not sure what you are getting at here Svejk.

Am I saying rape is rape, murder is murder and theft is theft?

Yes, why - aren't you?

[andy-hughes]

"You're being daft Andy."

You're being rude ummmm.

[vulcan42]

\\ Yes Judy, you absolutely were, you cold-hearted sanctimonious harridan.//
This from somebody who thinks being told they are daft is rude.

[ummmm]

No, I'm not being rude. You are being daft about this.

Murder isn't just murder though, we have murder and manslaughter. We have ABH & GBH...with or without intent and so on......

[douglas9401]

Deary me, this is one of the quickest backings into a corner I can recall.

[jim360]

There are clearly levels of severity. One can argue that they don't matter too much loyally -- that once you have crossed some arbitrary line then there's not much to be gained in fussing how far over that line you were -- but that certain rapes are more serious than others ought not be contentious.

If you don't care about the levels, that's fine -- but they are still there.

[andy-hughes]

ummm - "No, I'm not being rude. You are being daft about this"

You are perfectly entitled to disagree with my viewpoint, you are not entitled to belittle me personally for expressing it.

Please refrain, and confine yourself to debating the issue at hand - insults are distracting and inappropriate.

Thank you.

[jim360]

As has been pointed out below, you've been equally rude, indeed even more so, about Judy Finnegan. Just because she is not on this forum doesn't excuse being rude about her.

[andy-hughes]

jim360 - "but that certain rapes are more serious than others ought not be contentious."

If you are going to argue that one rape is 'more serious' than another, then you are going to have to contend with the counter-argument - that one rape is 'less serious' than another.

I don't think you would find many rape victims consoling themselves with the circumstances - as Ms Finnigan appears to do - that a rape in a luxury hotel room is less of a rape than a rape in a back alley, or that a rape of a woman intoxicated beyond defending herself is less of a rape than a woman who fights her attacker.

[andy-hughes]

jim360 - "As has been pointed out below, you've been equally rude, indeed even more so, about Judy Finnegan. Just because she is not on this forum doesn't excuse being rude about her."

That's a fair point jim, and on reflection, I would wish to withdraw my comment about Ms Finnigan.

[Svejk]

as ummmm suggested, if you can't differentiate between a schoolgirl who's snatched at a bus-stop and left for dead and an older lady who willingly visits a pop-star's/footballer's hotel room, then,in my opinion, it somehow lessens the overall 'impact' of the crime and would also lessen the chance of a jury convicting in the latter type of case.

[agchristie]

Judy states of Evans 'if he does go back'.

There is no chance of him going back to Sheff Utd, there are over 140,000 objectors.

Hardly the best of debuts on the programme. Dare I say, she has boobed again.