Can Anyone Explain How Bad It Would Have To Be......

[ToraToraTora]

..before the "don't bomb ????"brigad would actually do something? Would IS have to behead a member of their own family on their own doorstep? I mean the civilised world, even the Arabs and the French, have determined that these nutters must be stopped. So what is rent a moron doing with their banners outside no 10?

[Kromovaracun]

It's not a question of how bad it is - everyone knows the situation is horrific. The reason some of us are against this is because we're not convinced it is an effective way to achieve the goals it is supposed to achieve.

[ToraToraTora]

ok so do you have any alternative offerrings?

[stuey]

The approach being taken at present to "achieve the goal" is hardly efficacious is it?. Headlines stating "four tanks destroyed"; "two bunkers hit"; "three jeeps disabled"; "IS bicycle bomber wounded" etc. That approach is really going to eradicate them, isn't it?

[anotheoldgit]

Because these so called rent a moron, are more intelligent than our own politicians who are being forced into action for solely political reasons.

And can anyone explain how the carpet bombing of Iraq will prevent anyone from being beheaded in this country, this is the Arab country's problem let them deal with it in their own way, and don't forget we will have to rebuild Iraq at the end, and you are never going to get rid of every terrorist, because you don't know who they are.

[ToraToraTora]

fine, what should we be doing?

[stuey]

In one word: troops. (I hate that expression "Boots on the ground")

[Zacs-Master]

On another thread, which yo are aware of TTT Iran's president Hassan Rouhani admits that there are unknown intelligence agencies. How would you attack them?

[andy-hughes]

AOG - "Because these so called rent a moron, are more intelligent than our own politicians who are being forced into action for solely political reasons.

And can anyone explain how the carpet bombing of Iraq will prevent anyone from being beheaded in this country, this is the Arab country's problem let them deal with it in their own way, and don't forget we will have to rebuild Iraq at the end, and you are never going to get rid of every terrorist, because you don't know who they are."

I can wholeheartedly endorse your position on this issue, as well as that of Kromovaracun.

No-one would wish to stand idly by while innocent people are murdered, but murdering more innocent people with foreign bombs and missiles is not really reaching for a conclusion is it?

If the West seriously believes that any terrorist worthy of the label is going to suddenly see the error of his ways because his house and famioly are blown up is really missing the point of how terrorism operates.

The notion of obliterating enough terrorist military positions until the terrorists fade away is a farcical notion.

IS exists because it regards the Western culture as corrupt and to be wiped from the earth.

How better to underline that point of view than to bomb and murder Eastern women and children - thereby underlining the moral bankruptcy that they perceive as their enemy.

I do not have the lucury of knowing what the response should be, but i can agree with my AB colleagues who have posted along similar lines - I know exactly what the solution is not.

[Kromovaracun]

"ok so do you have any alternative offerrings?"

Focus on our own internal security threats. Co-operate as much as possible with international police and intelligence services. That's about all we can do.

[Kromovaracun]

Also, to expand on the points made by AOG/Andy Hughes, Iraq is going the wa y of a failed state whether we like it or not. Its army *fled* even though it outnumbered and outgunned IS forces by a ridiculous factor. This fight was lost when the Iraqi army deserted, and I'm sorry to say it but there really is nothing we can do to stop the country sliding into chaos.

[ToraToraTora]

ok lets all get out and leave them to it then.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - "ok lets all get out and leave them to it then."

I think you know that is a simplisitic and impractical answer.

Situations like this are vastly complex and require serious consideration, rather than the knee-jerk bombing and invading tactics enhanced by some of our gung-ho politicians.

[youngmafbog]

The idea is to use airi strikes to hold ISIS down so Muslim troops on the ground can eradicate them.

TTT, the great unwashed, not doubt funded by us the workers would campaign against war if a huge Amarda was sailing up the channel.

In their right-on mind anything is better than war. I wonder how long they would last under ISIS or Mr Jong-un ?

[Zeuhl]

What a bizarre little world some people live in:

where people with different points of view are knee-jerk generalised as being unhygienic

where the only people who work are those who share the poster's point of view

and where preposterous assumptions are made about other people's responses to ludicrously extreme and hypothetical situations

a very, very strange alternative to rational ideas

and rather tragic...

[mikey4444]

I watched Simon Jenkins on last nights Ch4 News, desperately trying to justify his "don't do anything" stance...pathetic.

[jomifl]

Every tank, truck, rocket launcher etc. that is destroyed from the air is one that IS can't use and will have to replace, somehow. If the replacements are destroyed before they get to IS then the job will have been done without putting members of the armed forces at risk unnecessarily.

[mikey4444]

TTT...yet again "the stick your head in the sand and hope for the best brigade" are off. They have no strategy.....just pretend its not happening. If those people and their idea were around in 1939, we all be speaking German by now.

[ChillDoubt]

Just woken up and getting ready for work, trying to catch up.
From the Sky News ticker, am I reading it right that an opposition cent bencher has resigned and another prominent Labourite has been sacked.
If so, I can hear a noise. It's the sound of the Labour Party losing thousands more votes prior to next May.

[ChillDoubt]

Front bencher, not cent. Crappy iPhone!