So can we stop messing about with Windmills now?

[KerrAvon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20134735

[McMouse]

The Japanese are decommissioning all their nuclear plants.......wonder why? Now they want to build them here!

[jomifl]

Why? many people have to live near unsightly power stations and put up with the side effects of the power industry. Why should a few people living in sparsely populated areas not have to put up with the inconvenience of seeing a wind farm. They don't produce nuclear waste, they don't produce heated water discharges, they don't suck in and kill millions of fish, they don't render areas of land unuseable for centuries. They pay back the construction costs in about a year. They can be removed easily, cheaply and safey. We should have more of them.

[jake-the-peg]

Yeah sure as long as you don't mind letting the Japanese charge you whatever they like for electricity in a few years time

You good with that?

The whole point is to have a diverse energy supply so that no one source has a stranglehold over the market. We've become over reliant on Gas in recent years giving the (mostly Russians) almost a strangle hold on our energy supply

Swapping the Russians for the Japanese would be rather dumb

[Bazile]

I was listening to the energy secretary , Ed Davey , being interviewed by John Humphrys , on the today programme this morning .

It was astonishing, that he stated that he had not entered into any discussion with Hitachi and did not have any idea as to what price they would be likely to be charging the UK consumer , for providingh the energy

[jake-the-peg]

Yeah - I heard that

Sounds to me that it's a "free market" deal they can charge whatever the retailers will pay

That's why we *must* have a diverse supply so nobody gets an effective monopoly

[Gromit]

What are they going to do?

Drop it on Pearl Harbour?

[Nibble]

Whilst in the construction phase, as stated within

http://www.scottish-e...uction-appraisal.ashx

The industry 'cost metric' for windfarms is currently £800K per rated MW. The highest value item in a windfarm development is the turbine (comprising nacelle, turbine blades and towers) which are typically estimated to account for up to 65-70% of the overall development cost.

However,as noted by

http://www.windustry....do-wind-turbines-cost

Wind turbines under 100 kilowatts cost roughly $3,000 to $5,000 per kilowatt of capacity. That means a 10 kilowatt machine (the size needed to power an average home) might cost $35,000-$50,000.


And in the decommisiong phase, as noted by

http://www.wind-watch...osts-lessons-learned/

The other study estimated demo costs of $97K/turbine vs. $70K/turbine by Beech Ridge. The bottom line is that using the demolition costs from the other wind turbine project decommissioning study would translate to a Beech Ridge demo cost of $12.03 million, i.e., $3.35 million more the applicant’s $8.68 million estimate. (Note: In another very recent project I have just reviewed, the decommissioning costs were again severely underestimated by more than 50% by not taking into account recent crane rental rates, extremely low earth moving costs, and assuming high productivity rates (6 turbines/wk).)


As seen, there are costs involved with all construction, and electricity generation, it's just the choices made against the cost benfits which need addressing, but as the majority of UK based actually generate for under 20% of the time, then repayment of the costs inherent with wind farms will take longer than the assertion above, i.e They pay back the construction costs in about a year..


http://www.windmeasur...bines/om-turbines.php

A modern wind turbines will be designed to work for 120 000 hours throughout their estimated life-span of 20 years. This would be the turbine operating for approximately 66% of the time for two decades.

[DTCwordfan]

In short, the large offshore ones can pay for themselves and make a reasonable return, both financially and environmentally.

Onshore large ones are at best marginal economically but from a total CO2 life cycle analysis, a relative disaster. The little turbines that spin on houses and offices are a compete life cycle disaster and only delude the owner into feeling good in that they are reversing their electric meter into the grid.

The way forward, continue to explore wave and tidal and see if we can come down from $4k per MW towards $1k - and also highly efficient solar - and geothermal - however, renewables are not going to generate all the tricity we need, so a balance of ultra-efficient gas gen and nuclear is needed. If that is Japanese owned and managed, that is debatable....

[youngmafbog]

We need the nuclear now. Labour spend years fannying around and now we are looking likely to be short of electricity. Wind farms cannot produce all the required energy plus no one actually knows the long term problems that may arise.

I have to say, seems a bit ironic the nips giving us nuclear.

[Bazile]

//Wind farms cannot produce all the required energy plus no one actually knows the long term problems that may arise. //

What - long term problems - compared to the long term problems of nuclear waste ?

[jake-the-peg]

I do wish someone would ask the Government the very specific question about whether the taxpayer will pick up any of the decommissioning costs

No nuclear power plant has been built for 20 years because sucessive governments have refused to subsidise this

My nose for weasel words was twitching today

I find it suspicious that this impasse has just been broken

I think they were saying that the plants would not receive public subsidy

That is *building* them?

Are we going to get suffed with the decommissioning costs again?

[ichkeria]

For what it's worth I don't think the Russians do have a stranglehold over our energy supplies. And the plan is (or was when Labour were in power) never to let that unwise scenario ever arise.

[jake-the-peg]

Well they will if we don't act quickly

http://uk.reuters.com...idUKBRE88I0J620120919

[dave50]

Can't we just tell Europe and the idiotic environmentalists to get stuffed and lets get some coal, gas and nuclear power stations built and stop pandering to out of touch minority groups?

[emmie]

aren't we paying a lot more in energy costs, in part due to the green energy policy, something we haven't been asked about. I hate wind turbines with a passion, i would tear every last one down if i could. They are a blot on the landscape and sea.

[LazyGun]

The soaring cost of household energy bills has far more to do with the wholesale price of fossil fuels such as gas ( 40% in 2011 alone) than the contribution toward low carbon initiatives and green fuel sources ( £110 over the next decade)

http://www.decc.gov.u..._q3/renewable_q3.aspx
http://www.theccc.org...vironmental-policies-

Any UK energy policy has to offer a mix of energy sources to spread the risk of relying too heavily on any one source. In my view, Nuclear energy should play a significant part in that mix, as should renewable resources, such as solar, tidal and wind.

Offshore wind farms should be a no-brainer given our coastline. On-shore wind farms should play a part too, although they are less efficient. I personally have no issue with wind farms. I think they are aesthetically quite pleasing. :)

[237SJ]

LazyGun - they might be aesthetically pleasing from a distance but they`re not aesthetically pleasing when they`re towering over your village, trust me. My home village has been aesthetically destroyed by 22 of the highest turbines in Europe.

[LazyGun]

@237 22 in one place sounds a lot, and sheer numbers would probably reduce aesthetic appeal.

[237SJ]

They`re a bl00dy eyesore. It`s a shame really because I always harboured a dream about moving back there when I retire one day but I don`t think I can now. They literally loom over the village.

[LazyGun]

I know - or at least I think i know which wind farm you are referring to 237 - I googled, hoping to find some pictures of the site, but with no luck - do you know of any, or have any you could link to?

Haven't mentioned the location specifically for privacy.