Sport3 mins ago
Can someone explain.....
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Why Islam is against education for females? I know that religion generally has some strange ideas but most of them can be traced back to some sort of logical reasoning. So what is the "reasoning" behind this concept?
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From the Koran, //Men are managers of the affairs of women because Allah has made the one superior to the other.// Sura 4:34
That verse also gives men permission to beat disobedient wives.
There are plenty more examples of misogyny in Islamic literature, but you asked for the reasoning behind the concept and I think that gives some indication of an answer to your question.
In fairness, and all the indignation aside, it’s just as inaccurate to claim that all Muslims object to women being educated as it is to deny that many do. I think a lot of Muslims are now removing themselves from fundamental Islamic teachings such as the above, preferring instead to adopt a more liberal and hence, more beneficial way of life for themselves and their families – but back to the Islam you’re talking about - women are not considered capable of teaching adult males; in a court of law two women witnesses are required whereas one man would do, and as Brenden has indicated, women are considered to be the property of their menfolk to do with as they will.
As for comparing such a backward culture to western societies of years ago, it might sound rational but it isn’t - the reason being that the west accepts education and change and moves on, but Islam never will because its ways are decreed by its holy book and its revered writings – and, since all of that is believed to be the word of Allah and his prophet Mohammed, it is deemed immutable. Only people can change – Islam cannot.
That verse also gives men permission to beat disobedient wives.
There are plenty more examples of misogyny in Islamic literature, but you asked for the reasoning behind the concept and I think that gives some indication of an answer to your question.
In fairness, and all the indignation aside, it’s just as inaccurate to claim that all Muslims object to women being educated as it is to deny that many do. I think a lot of Muslims are now removing themselves from fundamental Islamic teachings such as the above, preferring instead to adopt a more liberal and hence, more beneficial way of life for themselves and their families – but back to the Islam you’re talking about - women are not considered capable of teaching adult males; in a court of law two women witnesses are required whereas one man would do, and as Brenden has indicated, women are considered to be the property of their menfolk to do with as they will.
As for comparing such a backward culture to western societies of years ago, it might sound rational but it isn’t - the reason being that the west accepts education and change and moves on, but Islam never will because its ways are decreed by its holy book and its revered writings – and, since all of that is believed to be the word of Allah and his prophet Mohammed, it is deemed immutable. Only people can change – Islam cannot.
Naomi, I can't really agree with your last paragraph. I think the comparison is valid. The early patriarchs of the Christian church who largely influenced the development of the West most certainly opposed the education of girls. Even as late as the 20th century, churchmen were questioning the validity of educating girls and attempting to block it. And indeed could find biblical texts supporting their arguments. And yet I think you would be hard put to find a Christian priest in this country today who doesn't value education for both sexes.
The church-ruled west also stood in the way generally of educational developments that threatened them. (Wycliffe, Copernicus - the list is endless.) The church, however, has moved on. Likewise western society.
I don't accept that Islam is against education and change. I know too many highly educated Muslim women in this country to take that notion seriously. And don't forget Malala Yousafzai is a practising Muslim, as are her parents. Her dad, interestingly, is an educational activist, and actively promotes education for women. And yet he is a Muslim.....
The church-ruled west also stood in the way generally of educational developments that threatened them. (Wycliffe, Copernicus - the list is endless.) The church, however, has moved on. Likewise western society.
I don't accept that Islam is against education and change. I know too many highly educated Muslim women in this country to take that notion seriously. And don't forget Malala Yousafzai is a practising Muslim, as are her parents. Her dad, interestingly, is an educational activist, and actively promotes education for women. And yet he is a Muslim.....
Kiki, Your post appears to confirm precisely what I said. //I think a lot of Muslims are now removing themselves from fundamental Islamic teachings such as the above, preferring instead to adopt a more liberal and hence, more beneficial way of life for themselves and their families //
Christianity cannt be compared to Islam. The Koran and Mohammed's teachings are set in stone - they are absolutely immutable. Since, according to most Christians, the Bible is not the literal word of God, but rather written by men inspired by God, it is not immutable, but open to interpretation - and therein lies the difference.
Christianity cannt be compared to Islam. The Koran and Mohammed's teachings are set in stone - they are absolutely immutable. Since, according to most Christians, the Bible is not the literal word of God, but rather written by men inspired by God, it is not immutable, but open to interpretation - and therein lies the difference.
I totally agree with Naomi's last paragraph and think it's extremely well put, better than I could put it. Also, let's not forget the recent case of Shafilea Ahmed whose parents were found guiity of her murder purely because she wanted to live a westernised life with all her friends. There are a lot of 'Shafiela's' out there, aren't there ......
Hmmm, I think the two can most certainly be compared, not least because they developed from a common geographical area with great cultural similarities. And it was only a few hundred years back that the Christian Bible was taken literally as the Word of God (and indeed still is by some), much as the Koran is by Muslim extremists today.
You are absolutely right about many Muslims distancing themselves from the fundamental Islamic teachings. But they are nevertheless still followers of Islam. Islamic scholars discuss interpretations and kick ideas around in exactly the same way as Christians do. (And probably all faiths for that matter.) I don't know if you ever watch Sunday Morning Live (hosted by a highly educated woman, who just happens to be a Muslim), but you'll frequently see Muslim clerics (and those of other faiths as well, of course) going at it hammer and tongs over scriptural interpretation. I really don't think Islam is set in stone for all Muslims - but of course it's the fundies who will always hit the headlines.
You are absolutely right about many Muslims distancing themselves from the fundamental Islamic teachings. But they are nevertheless still followers of Islam. Islamic scholars discuss interpretations and kick ideas around in exactly the same way as Christians do. (And probably all faiths for that matter.) I don't know if you ever watch Sunday Morning Live (hosted by a highly educated woman, who just happens to be a Muslim), but you'll frequently see Muslim clerics (and those of other faiths as well, of course) going at it hammer and tongs over scriptural interpretation. I really don't think Islam is set in stone for all Muslims - but of course it's the fundies who will always hit the headlines.
Kiki, you really do not understand this at all – and I think that’s because, like many people here, you’re coming from the point of view of a Christian culture, that unlike Islam, accepts change. It is not only Muslim extremists that take the Koran literally. All Muslims believe it is the literal word of God, and as such it is immutable and it is beyond criticism. That will never change. Now that isn’t to say that because the Koran instructs men to beat their disobedient wives, all of them actually do it – nor is it to say that all Muslims must become suicide bombers – although the impetus for that can be found in the Koran – and neither is it to say that since the Koran deems women less intelligent than men, no Muslim father wants his daughters to receive an education. Of course Muslims discuss the meaning of the Koran – look at some of the science websites (or even at some of the posts from Muslims in R&S!) and see how they attempt to manipulate the book’s most ludicrous claims and present them as scientific fact. Whilst many Muslims will not choose to follow the more unsavoury aspects of the Koran, they will attempt to justify them. You will never see any Muslim dismiss or contradict anything in the Koran – or in Mohammed’s life or teachings. Never! Do do so would be blasphemy. Islam is another world – really it is.
////Kiki, you really do not understand this at all ////
LOL, that's me told, then!
But seriously, Naomi, I'd be very interested to know what your own experience is that leads you to your point of view and speak with such authority. Just idle curiosity on my part....
I agree with you completely that Muslims will not dismiss or contradict the Koran. I did not suggest that for one minute. But there are numerous passages that are so opaque that practising Muslims (as opposed to nominal - and yes, there are such people) will discuss the meaning and come up with a variety of answers.
LOL, that's me told, then!
But seriously, Naomi, I'd be very interested to know what your own experience is that leads you to your point of view and speak with such authority. Just idle curiosity on my part....
I agree with you completely that Muslims will not dismiss or contradict the Koran. I did not suggest that for one minute. But there are numerous passages that are so opaque that practising Muslims (as opposed to nominal - and yes, there are such people) will discuss the meaning and come up with a variety of answers.
Kiki, //you really do not understand this at all//
No offence intended, I assure you. I simply meant that people often mistakenly assume that others of a different culture share their own rational mindset – but that isn’t always the case
As for my experience, with all due respect, I prefer not to discuss my personal or my professional life here – at least not in any detail.
No offence intended, I assure you. I simply meant that people often mistakenly assume that others of a different culture share their own rational mindset – but that isn’t always the case
As for my experience, with all due respect, I prefer not to discuss my personal or my professional life here – at least not in any detail.
some should take a look at the capital, it's full of Muslim men who wear western dress whilst their women folk are dressed in what one can only describe as shrouds, some complete with veil. If you think i am exaggerating have a wander through Tower Hamlets, or indeed many parts of the capital. It isn't something i understand at all. But then i feel that the capital that i grew up in has gone for good.
