Is The U.s. Dangerously Prodding The Russian Bear...

[Khandro]

.. along with NATO & now the U.K. ?

[youngmafbog]

//but let’s not go round the houses on that as it leads nowhere//

Is that your pncy way of saying "End of" ?

[ichkeria]

No it's my way of saying lets not go round the houses on that any more as khandro and I have done, several times.

[ichkeria]

He says potayto I say potahto and everyone else is saying "lets call the whole thing off"

[ichkeria]

Or is it the other way round :-)

[Khandro]

ichi //let’s not go round the houses on that as it leads nowhere//

I think it does, the facts are briefly: Crimea belonged to Russia since the time Catherine the Great, In 1954, Nikita Khrushchev (drunk) gave it to Ukraine (his mother lived there) at a meeting which was not quorate & no minutes were taken. As Ukraine was part of the USSR it made little difference at the time.

With the ending of the Warsaw Pact, Ukraine became autonomous & retained Crimea, thus preventing Russian access to its fleet in the Black Sea (without crossing Ukrainian territory) & so Putin reclaimed what he believed to be Russian.

Whether you agree with this or not doesn't matter, Russia has it back & will hold on to its possession.

Tell me what right has America to demand that Putin 'returns' it to Ukraine ........... or else ?

[Teapots1]

Give some people an inch and they will try and take a yard. Not sure who at the moment is taking the inch, hoping for a yard.

[ichkeria]

Like I say, khandro, it's pointless.
We aren't going to agree on this
I am surprised as always that you see fit to defend what happened in 2014, but that is your business.

As I already pointed out nothing changed re Russia's access to its Black Sea fleet in 2014. They held it before (perfectly reasonably IMO) as they do now, and they still don't have land access via Ukraine. All they have is the Kerch bridge now.

You still haven;t told me why you think Rusia is massing its troops on Ukraine's border if you also accept that that country does not, and has never, since it became independent, threatened its much larger neighbour.

[ElianoraRuzvild]

Russia is a country with a totalitarian regime and forced people with an imperial temperament.
Why Russia has been knitting wars all the time of its existence, the reasons for this are different. Now there are rumors that they are afraid of the Chinese, because they gave them Transbaikalia on an indefinite lease for a period of allegedly 50 years. They strategically figured that it would be easier for them to move to Europe than to defend their territory from the Chinese. And this is the most logical explanation of all those given earlier, since certain events that they so diligently hide testify to this.

[Khandro]

ichi: //All they have is the Kerch bridge now.//

https://ibb.co/Yjk007M

Which isn't to be sniffed at, what with road & rail plus of course air, there isn't anything that can't be moved into Crimea, it is just as it was before with the Perekop Isthmus, the narrow strip of land to the north used previously:


I've answered your question about 2014 several times, 'illegal' yes, but from the Russian viewpoint, (& in the real world) eminently justifiable.

Now why not answer mine, repeat; "Tell me what right has America to demand that Putin 'returns' it to Ukraine ........... or else ? "

[Khandro]

Further to my point on historic claim to ownership:

" Russia and the Ottoman Empire engaged in a series of wars for control of the Black Sea region. One of those conflicts, fought from 1768 to 1774, concluded with the Treaty of Küçük Kaynarca (1774), which ceded to Russia fortresses on the Kerch Peninsula and established an independent Crimean Tatar state. In 1783 Catherine II (the Great) annexed the peninsula, and it became Russian territory."

[ichkeria]

“ Now why not answer mine, repeat; "Tell me what right has America to demand that Putin 'returns' it to Ukraine ........... or else ? "

I already did!
And you already disagreed

We are just going round in circles
Although you still haven’t explained the military threat posed by Ukraine
The non-military threat posed by Ukraine to Russia is all too plain to see.

[Khandro]

Now the US from the comfort of being on the other side of the world, are as usual interfering elsewhere by refusing that NATO should not move into Ukraine.
There is a long list of wars and rebellions involving the United States of America since WWII, Currently, there are 102 wars on this list, 3 of which are ongoing, what's one more ?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60145159

[Gromit]

No. Russia is threatening Ukraine and it is proper that the US and UK warn them of the folly of that illegal move.
Putin is a crook, a gangster and a Bully. He needs keeping in check.

[david small]

You mess with a bull, you get the horns. You mess with the bear, the claws. The US will prod and leave. The mess, well, someone else’s problem. We should keep well clear of this one…….But of course we won’t.

[ElianoraRuzvild]

"There is a long list of wars and rebellions involving the United States of America since World War II. There are currently 102 wars on that list, 3 of which are ongoing, which one?"

The list of wars unleashed by Russia is 100 times longer; she plays the game only in her own interests, acting vilely and deceitfully with her opponents.
America and China are the only countries capable of resisting the aggression of Russia, it is not profitable for China to be far away, only America remains that is able to defend the rights of the European continent.

I wonder why you are so drowning for Russia and justifying the obscenely arrogant and deceitful acts and attacks against humanity as well?

[Atheist]

Incoming bots! Propaganda is alive and well, especially in the internet age.

[ichkeria]

“ No. Russia is threatening Ukraine and it is proper that the US and UK warn them of the folly of that illegal move.
Putin is a crook, a gangster and a Bully. He needs keeping in check.”

Yep.

[Khandro]

Elianiora //The list of wars unleashed by Russia is 100 times longer; //

It seems to be actually 20 times shorter than those of the US, but who's counting?



Iran (1941–1946)
Hungary (1944)
Romania (1944)
Bulgaria (1944)
Czechoslovakia (1944)
Northern Norway (1944–1946) and Bornholm, Denmark (1945– 1946)
Germany/Austria (1945)

[ElianoraRuzvild]

There is such information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

And that's just until 2018.

[Canary42]

The UK voted for Brexit to get out of nearby Europe - why should we want to get involved with stuff even further away. The Will of the People is to [ not get involved. We should stop sucking up to Uncle Sam.