Another Hypocracracy For The Libdums

[lindapalmara]

Ed Davey gave a speech today at the LD Confernce stating he was saving the world with his green agenda because he has single handedly converted out coal power stations from burning coal to burning wood pellets. These pellets come from chopping down forests in California ,converting into pellets which become highly combustible the have to be shipped across the Atlantic in diezel guzzling ships,only for them to produce just as much CO2 as the local coal used to. What are these people on?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2783061/LUNACY-The-Lib-Dem-energy-minister-switched-biggest-power-station-coal-wood-brought-diesel-guzzling-ships-U-S-The-result-It-costs-fortune-emits-pollution.html

[youngmafbog]

Same goes for electric cars and most other things green. But it gives the greens a warm fuzzy feeling.

[janbee]

Ah yes, the good old LIMPs...soon to be consigned to the history books...for EVER. Brothel/army camp and p.up/brewery come to mind

[lindapalmara]

Yes, I just noticed also that Cleggy has been outvoted on his U Turn on extending one of the southern airports because the party would lose their credibility on green issues (?!?!?!?!). You couldn't makt it up!!!

[janbee]

Linda I agree. What a joke !

[ToraToraTora]

linda, as YMB says, the "greenness" is all preception. Lecky cars are considered green because they don't use fossil fuels directly but using fossil fuels to generate electricity wastes 80% of heir energy. Much better to put he petrol/diesel in the car. But the old G wiz gives the islington set a nice warm fuzzy feeling. How much carbon emmission is cost world wide to make a hybrid? You cannot make them see because they do no know any science. So using fuel to cut down trees that would be using CO2 and producing oxygen, using more fuel to transport and process still seems good to your eco lib dem because they are not using nasty coal, ie trees that have harvested the sun's energy over millions of years. Don't look for logic!

[janbee]

so many u turns, I'm surprised he doesn't have curvature of the spine.

[ToraToraTora]

here is an interesting video:
http://www.bbcamerica.com/top-gear/videos/thirsty-prius/

[Gromit]

Do obviously have no idea why fossil fuels are worse than wood burned from a sustainable source.
Your ignorance is rather Amusing really.

[lindapalmara]

Fascinating TTT. Lets have a few Greens on to challenge that!

[ToraToraTora]

right so using fuel to cut down something that is itself using CO2 and producing oxygen and then using more fuel to convert it to pellets then using more fuel to ship it round the world is better than fossil fuels is it gromit? Do explain I'm all ears.

[lindapalmara]

Gromit. Several American Scientists wrote to Ed Davey recently pleading with him to stop importing non sustainable forests in California (read the full article). Also look at TTTs Top Gear clip about the Prius. Get your facts right. We are pi....g in the wind when so many other countries are opening up coal fired power stations al out daily.

[Gromit]

TTT, this is the Primary School explanation...

All he carbon in trees has been taken out of the air as the tree grows. The carbon is released when the tree is burned. If we plant a replacement tree, that tree will take the pollution out of the air again over its life time. The net result is zero carbon emissions.

Fossil fuels have the carbon stored from thousands of years ago. So when we burn it there is a net increase in carbon emissions.

Biomass does not just burn Californian trees. Biomass is made from household and garden waste. The pellets are used like 'fielights' to help the waste burn. Organic material when it is thrown into landfill causes greehouse gases as it rots. By not putting it in landfill but using it to replace coal, the net saving in emissions far greater than shipping them here.

[ToraToraTora]

so leave it growing gathering CO2 and use what's in the ground, same result. Or lets plant many many more! What about the amount of fuel used transporting ship loads round the world. I'm not convinced it's greener.

[andy-hughes]

I will start worrying about my 'carbon footprint' (God that phrase makes we want to laugh and comit simultaniously!) - when China stops building coal-fired power stations at the rate of one a week.

The whole notion of 'climate change' is utter tosh - the climate has always changed, heated and cooled, through the planet's history.

I remain utterly unconvinced in the absence of a raft of unbiased credible scientific evidence that we are doing any more harm to the planet here in the UK, than anywhere else in the world.

The rest of the world adopts the same approach to 'climate change' as it does to health and safety laws - they ignore it!

[Svejk]

when we're all shivering in the dark the greenies will be, blithely, flying to another 'conference' in Cancun.

[lindapalmara]

Aside...TTT, is this bloke Gromit always so obnoxious and patronising? Told me my ignorance was laughable and you needed a Primary school explanation! Oh dear. You can always rely on someone to lower the tone of a good discussion!

[Gromit]

Linda,
It is not just the LibDems who are sold on the benefits of biomass. There are thousands of biomass power generating stations all over the world. Food and garden waste we used to let rot is now harnessed for power generation.
The Pellets used to start these furnaces are usually made from waste wood and sawdust from sawmills. I do not know if that is the case with these US pellets.

[Gromit]

// The only whole trees that Enviva uses are either young commercial softwood thinnings, which are cut to ensure healthy growth of high-value timber, or in some cases small, diseased or deformed trees that do not meet specifications for sawlogs. In many places, there is no other market for this wood. Often, what may appear to be a whole tree is actually the top of a tree, which cannot be used to make the high-value wood products for which the trunks have been harvested. //

// American forests are thriving. The total forest area in the US is within one percent of what it was 100 years ago. During the last 60 years, forest resources have increased by more than 50% in the US and 94% in the Southeast, where Enviva’s operations are located. //

// In 2017, total US wood consumption related to European wood pellet demand is projected to represent approximately 3% of total tons harvested in 2012 for all forest products industries. //

http://www.envivabiomass.com/faq-most-frequently-asked/

[ToraToraTora]

Linda, gromit is one of many who love to accuse you of low intellegence if you don't "get it". It upsets their cozy view if you ask certain questions, like clergy, they want you to accept what they say without question regardless of the implausibility. To doubt, what to them is the "correct" answer/view you are a heretic and thus will have one of their repertiore of names assigned. For example Andy will no doubt get pilloried for daring to say the obvious about climate change above. I am well used to gromits little tantrums and don't really take it personally.

[lindapalmara]

Thanks TTT I'll remember and ignore.