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Who In The Religious World....
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Speaks the most sense about religious matters and why, in todays world?
You can opt for any faith in your answer.
You can opt for any faith in your answer.
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Naomi, you have justifed your statement by expanding .......
how can worship of a supernatural entity be rationalised unless its worshippers believe it to offer a very substantial reward etc
So as, it appears, you cannot think of any other motives you say that must be the ONLY reason and that this applies not to just a few or many but all of the people! Rational thought, really?
You go on to say:
The reward allegedly offered by your god in exchange for your unswerving loyalty is eternal life - and by your own admission at 19:40 yesterday, that is what you're hoping ultimately to achieve.
I am sorry Naomi. I have read and re-read my post referred to. Nowhere did I say what I personally was trying ultimately to achieve. So no idea where you got that from.
how can worship of a supernatural entity be rationalised unless its worshippers believe it to offer a very substantial reward etc
So as, it appears, you cannot think of any other motives you say that must be the ONLY reason and that this applies not to just a few or many but all of the people! Rational thought, really?
You go on to say:
The reward allegedly offered by your god in exchange for your unswerving loyalty is eternal life - and by your own admission at 19:40 yesterday, that is what you're hoping ultimately to achieve.
I am sorry Naomi. I have read and re-read my post referred to. Nowhere did I say what I personally was trying ultimately to achieve. So no idea where you got that from.
Grasscarp, no, I can’t think of other motives. Perhaps you'll list them for me.
You need to re-read your post a third time. I’ve just read it again, and you say // It is faith so cannot be explained. We have faith, hope and belief that the spirit goes on. Death of the human body occurs so there is nothing to discuss there. Each of us will find what does happen eventually (or not as the case may be).//
Who are the “we” who "have faith, hope and belief that the spirit goes on", if that doesn’t include you?
You need to re-read your post a third time. I’ve just read it again, and you say // It is faith so cannot be explained. We have faith, hope and belief that the spirit goes on. Death of the human body occurs so there is nothing to discuss there. Each of us will find what does happen eventually (or not as the case may be).//
Who are the “we” who "have faith, hope and belief that the spirit goes on", if that doesn’t include you?
Naomi, I am obliged for your lengthy replies. It is appreciated. Perhaps, I am guilty of asking too many questions but it is purely because I try to get a better understanding and clarification on issues I am not au fait with. I am naturally of an enquiring mind and I apologise if I overdo it. R & S is your area of speciality and I have gained much insight and knowledge from your undoubted experience in this genre. It is not that I am loth to offer opinions it is more sometimes I genuinely don't know so it is through sites like this that I can learn from those who are more able than I to comment from whatever angle.
I know through the recent exchanges we have deviated from the original question (and I accept I have played my part), at the same time it has been more enlightening for me to see two different perspectives.
Personally, I am not a religious person but find the subject fascinating. So my leanings are towards your thinking. People who have faith, the reasoning and what is rational etc arouses my curiousity.
By the way Naomi, insofar as Islam is concerned I have obtained the two books you kindly recommended ;-)
I know through the recent exchanges we have deviated from the original question (and I accept I have played my part), at the same time it has been more enlightening for me to see two different perspectives.
Personally, I am not a religious person but find the subject fascinating. So my leanings are towards your thinking. People who have faith, the reasoning and what is rational etc arouses my curiousity.
By the way Naomi, insofar as Islam is concerned I have obtained the two books you kindly recommended ;-)
agchristie, My reference to your questions wasn’t a criticism; simply an observation. Ask away. Your questions produce some interesting discussion.
Since speaking to you about Karen Armstrong, I decided to re-visit her book on Mohammed, and before I got through a page or two, I was reminded of vetuste_ennemi’s amusingly accurate observation of her as “obviously infatuated with her subject and gives a very convincing impression of a 13 year old virgin besotted by the local bad boy.” Her biography of Mohammed, whilst containing some valuable history, is somewhat biased in his favour – but since she tends to view all religion through the haze of rose-coloured spectacles, partiality for the subject in question will be found in all her books. That said, she’s easy reading. I hope you find both useful.
Since speaking to you about Karen Armstrong, I decided to re-visit her book on Mohammed, and before I got through a page or two, I was reminded of vetuste_ennemi’s amusingly accurate observation of her as “obviously infatuated with her subject and gives a very convincing impression of a 13 year old virgin besotted by the local bad boy.” Her biography of Mohammed, whilst containing some valuable history, is somewhat biased in his favour – but since she tends to view all religion through the haze of rose-coloured spectacles, partiality for the subject in question will be found in all her books. That said, she’s easy reading. I hope you find both useful.
Naomi I made a generalisation in basic spirit going on or not. All the bit about reward for unswerving loyalty etc is your made up interpretation. If you are going to comment at least respond to what you read and not something you have invented.
As for admitting you can only think of one reason for every person who is or has ever been part of any religion reflects the fact you know nothing about it - but then as you are an atheist I am not surprised.
As for admitting you can only think of one reason for every person who is or has ever been part of any religion reflects the fact you know nothing about it - but then as you are an atheist I am not surprised.
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