Jokes2 mins ago
Should Voting In Political Elections Be Mandatory?
and if so would we see minority parties winning more seats? Would it encourage the right-wingers who put the world to rights in pubs but never vote, to elect hardcore facists? -or would the 'big three' parties get more votes because the voter had to put someone down so just picked a mainstream party they vaguely thought they should?
Answers
You might wish to investigate the australian experience mags, where voting is compulsory. Non-
15:18 Sat 02nd Mar 2013
Aye, it's a good idea in theory, I don't think I've ever been so completely indifferent on politics, I can usually muster up an opinion on most things if I'm bored enough.. ;o)
A genuine disillusionment option should also be allowed when being asked for feedback on leadership at work... I might even complete the staff satisfaction surveys then...
A genuine disillusionment option should also be allowed when being asked for feedback on leadership at work... I might even complete the staff satisfaction surveys then...
-- answer removed --
I can't quite see what making voting compulsory would achieve ? Very few places around the globe has compulsory voting. I wonder why ?
I'm not sure how it would be policed. In the summer of 2011 I worked on the Census. I knocked on hundreds of doors of recalcitrants and most people had either posted their forms off but they hadn't been processed by the Census people yet, or they needed some help and/or encouragement to complete the forms.
(By the way, it came as a bit of a shock to discover just how widespread literacy difficulties were. Some people could read the headlines in the Sun or the Star but were completely hopeless when it to came to completing a simple form like the Census. A sad reflection on our education system I would have thought. )
Anyway, back to voting. Ensuring people voted in compulsory elections and pursuing and prosecuting those that didn't would cost millions of pounds, as the Census operation did. We were told to inform people that didn't complete the Census forms that they might be prosecuted and fined £1000 if they refused to take part.
In the end only about 5-6% of forms were not received and only 120 people were prosecuted ! And it cost the Government god knows how much to achieve that.
Another danger of making voting compulsory would be that people if were forced to put a X on a ballot paper, than many would simply spoil their papers. An even bigger danger would be to increase the votes for the Loony Tune parties, and there are always many of those on the ballot papers.
After all, there are apparently 1000's of Jedis in Britain today, if the Census was anything to go by. That is not some apocryphal story as it actually happened in front of me !
I'm not sure how it would be policed. In the summer of 2011 I worked on the Census. I knocked on hundreds of doors of recalcitrants and most people had either posted their forms off but they hadn't been processed by the Census people yet, or they needed some help and/or encouragement to complete the forms.
(By the way, it came as a bit of a shock to discover just how widespread literacy difficulties were. Some people could read the headlines in the Sun or the Star but were completely hopeless when it to came to completing a simple form like the Census. A sad reflection on our education system I would have thought. )
Anyway, back to voting. Ensuring people voted in compulsory elections and pursuing and prosecuting those that didn't would cost millions of pounds, as the Census operation did. We were told to inform people that didn't complete the Census forms that they might be prosecuted and fined £1000 if they refused to take part.
In the end only about 5-6% of forms were not received and only 120 people were prosecuted ! And it cost the Government god knows how much to achieve that.
Another danger of making voting compulsory would be that people if were forced to put a X on a ballot paper, than many would simply spoil their papers. An even bigger danger would be to increase the votes for the Loony Tune parties, and there are always many of those on the ballot papers.
After all, there are apparently 1000's of Jedis in Britain today, if the Census was anything to go by. That is not some apocryphal story as it actually happened in front of me !
Bringing this up again Mikey :-)
The 'none of the above' option has some merit but is ultimately pointless. In order for the few to get the kick of controlling others' behaviour it would force folk to waste their time effectively going out and spoiling a ballot paper, when a low turnout is clearly a loud shout that the candidates have insufficient support and the system needs looking at/improving. And really, making it unlawful or even illegal to simply not vote ? What major affront against society is that, that it needs to be disgraced and punished so ?
The 'none of the above' option has some merit but is ultimately pointless. In order for the few to get the kick of controlling others' behaviour it would force folk to waste their time effectively going out and spoiling a ballot paper, when a low turnout is clearly a loud shout that the candidates have insufficient support and the system needs looking at/improving. And really, making it unlawful or even illegal to simply not vote ? What major affront against society is that, that it needs to be disgraced and punished so ?
chrisgel...on your point....one of the changes that could happen in the future, which might increase participation in democracy would be to change our system of first-past-the-post and introduce some kind of proportional representation.
To use the 2010 General Election as an example :: It can't be fair that the Liberals polled 23% of the vote but only achieved 57 seats in Parliament. Labour got 258 seats with only slightly more of the popular vote with 29%
But one of the conditions of the Libs propping up the Tories in 2010 was that they be given an opportunity to put the proportional voting system to a ballot, which failed miserably to win any kind of support across the country.
This is a bit odd as we elect our Euro MPs, and the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly by PR. It has to be said that the lead up to the PR referendum was handled appallingly, by everybody concerned.
But big oaks from little acorns grow, so we must keep on keeping on about PR !
To use the 2010 General Election as an example :: It can't be fair that the Liberals polled 23% of the vote but only achieved 57 seats in Parliament. Labour got 258 seats with only slightly more of the popular vote with 29%
But one of the conditions of the Libs propping up the Tories in 2010 was that they be given an opportunity to put the proportional voting system to a ballot, which failed miserably to win any kind of support across the country.
This is a bit odd as we elect our Euro MPs, and the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly by PR. It has to be said that the lead up to the PR referendum was handled appallingly, by everybody concerned.
But big oaks from little acorns grow, so we must keep on keeping on about PR !
Woofgang --- I happen to think the opposite. I've voted all my life (Labour) until the last election when I voted Conservative.
I am now committed to not voting ever again.
If their isn't a party that represents my views and opinions, then I won't be voting for anyone. I will also feel quite justified in moaning if the party you elect does something that I don't like because you voted and I didn't.
I am now committed to not voting ever again.
If their isn't a party that represents my views and opinions, then I won't be voting for anyone. I will also feel quite justified in moaning if the party you elect does something that I don't like because you voted and I didn't.
chrisgel...I am intrigued about what you have to say about your voting record. I have no wish to pry but presumably you voted Labour all your life until 2010 because you thought the Tories were horrid. All through Thatchers time, untold damage was done to Britain with truly horrific levels of unemployment.
If that was so, you continued to vote Labour in the elections of '79, '83, '87, '92, '97, '01, and '05. But why did you vote Tory in 2010 ?
I can understand why your enthusiasm for Labour had waned somewhat by the time 2010 came around. Brown was ghastly. But given what you thought about the Tories all through the 80's and 90's ( and perhaps the 60's and the 70's but I don't know how old you are ! ) I am a tad puzzled why you voted Tory ?
Why did you give your vote to the party that you had NOT supported, for good reasons, for many years, given that you lived through those times ?
Why did you not simply abstain, rather than vote Tory ? Surely you must have known what the Tories were capable of, as you had first hand experience ?
As I said I have no wish to pry into your affairs. But an explanation might be interesting.
I hope I haven't offended you in anyway, as it was definitely not my intention at all.
If that was so, you continued to vote Labour in the elections of '79, '83, '87, '92, '97, '01, and '05. But why did you vote Tory in 2010 ?
I can understand why your enthusiasm for Labour had waned somewhat by the time 2010 came around. Brown was ghastly. But given what you thought about the Tories all through the 80's and 90's ( and perhaps the 60's and the 70's but I don't know how old you are ! ) I am a tad puzzled why you voted Tory ?
Why did you give your vote to the party that you had NOT supported, for good reasons, for many years, given that you lived through those times ?
Why did you not simply abstain, rather than vote Tory ? Surely you must have known what the Tories were capable of, as you had first hand experience ?
As I said I have no wish to pry into your affairs. But an explanation might be interesting.
I hope I haven't offended you in anyway, as it was definitely not my intention at all.
-- answer removed --
Mikey4444 --- Yes you have make a good point and looking back on it I can't honestly remember exactly why.
I was a firebrand socialist in my youth (Even a member of SWP for a year) Trade Union rep etc.
I think, although I may be wrong, that it's a recognised phenomenon that as you get older your views become more conservative. I was totally disillusioned by politics at the time and I suppose it was in a way a protest vote for me.
Sorry I can't offer a more cogent explanation but I can assure you that it won't happen again.
I was a firebrand socialist in my youth (Even a member of SWP for a year) Trade Union rep etc.
I think, although I may be wrong, that it's a recognised phenomenon that as you get older your views become more conservative. I was totally disillusioned by politics at the time and I suppose it was in a way a protest vote for me.
Sorry I can't offer a more cogent explanation but I can assure you that it won't happen again.
chrisgel...thanks for your honest reply.
To go from the Socialist Workers Party to vote Conservative would seem to be a highly unusual progression indeed, even given the long period over which it must have happened. It makes the conversion on the road to Damascus seem almost unimportant in comparison. It gladdens my heart to see that you have seen the error of your ways and that you will never vote Tory again. I can sleep easier at night knowing that fact. Its easy you know....as Nancy Reagan used to say...just say no !
Back in the early 70's I used to share a flat with a SWP supporter, although it wasn't called that then. I was a local Labour Party worker ( I was still a teenager, so I was a very junior Member ! ) and a very keen Union official.
My grandfather, who I never met, was a Union official before WW2, so I was brought up in a pretty bolshie home. But the SWP was perhaps one step too far. But I did get to meet Vanessa Redgrave at the only meeting that I ever attended, so I have been a huge fan of hers since, in a theatrical way, rather than a political sense !
i live in south Wales, and therefore it has never occurred to me to vote Conservative. Our industrial landscape was completely and utterly ruined by the Tory administration under Attila the Hen. We were some way away from from having our own Assembly Government back then, which didn't come about until Blair broke the logjam and finally got rid of the Tories from Britain, and Wales in 1979. So we were ruled by a series of mostly English and 100% Tory Governor Generals, imposed on us by Conservative Central Office. Almost all were MPs from English constituencies, which says a lot about the ability of the few Welsh Tory MPs that could have been chosen in their place. They used to be driven over the Severn Bridge in their Ministerial Rovers, with their ostrich-plumed hats on the seat beside them.
But they never lasted very long.
Couldn't manage the Welsh National Anthem you see boyo, although Redwood did try humming along to it once.
The low point of those years was John Redmond, who the Plaid Cymru leader of the time described as "about as popular in Wales as a rat sandwich" ( it sounds funnier with a Welsh accent ) The high point was the late Peter Walker who did try to help us but was ultimately let down by a rabidly anti-Welsh movement at Westminster.
Its worth remembering that Thatcher herself used to visit Wales rather less often that she went willingly onto a train. The first time, large quantities of rocks and bits of *** heap were thrown at her train. Welsh confetti its called. The second time she decided to be the guest of honour at the Welsh Conservative Party Annual Conference, in Porthcawl, where she was met by about 5,000 policemen, accompanied by 30,000 Welsh Trade Unionists, who had thoughtfully decided to turn up and welcome her to Wales.
It is fashionable to hate Tony Blair these days but some people conveniently forget that he defeated the Tories in 3 consecutive General Elections. I would argue that he could have managed a 4th time, but instead passed the baton over to Gordon, who was an almost complete distaster. In 1997, Wales and Scotland became "Tory-Free" zones, without any Tory MP's at all. Even now there are more pandas north of the Border than Scottish Tory MPs.
Now, with the so-called coalition government that we have now, Wales still only sends 8 Tory MPs to Westminster, out of a possible total of 40. But with the Welsh Assembly firmly in place, we now have an almost certain probability of never being ruled by any more Tory officials ever again. No more rat sandwiches here we hope !
To go from the Socialist Workers Party to vote Conservative would seem to be a highly unusual progression indeed, even given the long period over which it must have happened. It makes the conversion on the road to Damascus seem almost unimportant in comparison. It gladdens my heart to see that you have seen the error of your ways and that you will never vote Tory again. I can sleep easier at night knowing that fact. Its easy you know....as Nancy Reagan used to say...just say no !
Back in the early 70's I used to share a flat with a SWP supporter, although it wasn't called that then. I was a local Labour Party worker ( I was still a teenager, so I was a very junior Member ! ) and a very keen Union official.
My grandfather, who I never met, was a Union official before WW2, so I was brought up in a pretty bolshie home. But the SWP was perhaps one step too far. But I did get to meet Vanessa Redgrave at the only meeting that I ever attended, so I have been a huge fan of hers since, in a theatrical way, rather than a political sense !
i live in south Wales, and therefore it has never occurred to me to vote Conservative. Our industrial landscape was completely and utterly ruined by the Tory administration under Attila the Hen. We were some way away from from having our own Assembly Government back then, which didn't come about until Blair broke the logjam and finally got rid of the Tories from Britain, and Wales in 1979. So we were ruled by a series of mostly English and 100% Tory Governor Generals, imposed on us by Conservative Central Office. Almost all were MPs from English constituencies, which says a lot about the ability of the few Welsh Tory MPs that could have been chosen in their place. They used to be driven over the Severn Bridge in their Ministerial Rovers, with their ostrich-plumed hats on the seat beside them.
But they never lasted very long.
Couldn't manage the Welsh National Anthem you see boyo, although Redwood did try humming along to it once.
The low point of those years was John Redmond, who the Plaid Cymru leader of the time described as "about as popular in Wales as a rat sandwich" ( it sounds funnier with a Welsh accent ) The high point was the late Peter Walker who did try to help us but was ultimately let down by a rabidly anti-Welsh movement at Westminster.
Its worth remembering that Thatcher herself used to visit Wales rather less often that she went willingly onto a train. The first time, large quantities of rocks and bits of *** heap were thrown at her train. Welsh confetti its called. The second time she decided to be the guest of honour at the Welsh Conservative Party Annual Conference, in Porthcawl, where she was met by about 5,000 policemen, accompanied by 30,000 Welsh Trade Unionists, who had thoughtfully decided to turn up and welcome her to Wales.
It is fashionable to hate Tony Blair these days but some people conveniently forget that he defeated the Tories in 3 consecutive General Elections. I would argue that he could have managed a 4th time, but instead passed the baton over to Gordon, who was an almost complete distaster. In 1997, Wales and Scotland became "Tory-Free" zones, without any Tory MP's at all. Even now there are more pandas north of the Border than Scottish Tory MPs.
Now, with the so-called coalition government that we have now, Wales still only sends 8 Tory MPs to Westminster, out of a possible total of 40. But with the Welsh Assembly firmly in place, we now have an almost certain probability of never being ruled by any more Tory officials ever again. No more rat sandwiches here we hope !
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