Closure?

[Sqad]

This is a topic that I couldn't make my mind up as to which section was appropriate......so forgive me if i have chosen the wrong section.

We have heard the term "closure" in the press and particularly on AB in reference to the victims of the Jimmy Savile outrage.

I have never come across the term until now and i know that some ABer will explain........BUT....please ....not in flowery language going on endlessly with euphemisms etc, but just giving me the "bottom line."

It is quite clear, that sexual abuse has devastating physical and emotional effects on the body and i am guessing that the term "closure" relates to the psychological effects of this abuse on the victim.

If these allegations are substantiated against JS, does "it will bring closure to the victims" mean that their psychological symptoms will either disappear or be markedly ameliorated?

I look forward to meaningful replies.

[factor-fiction]

I think I agree with flump- but surely that closure has already been achieved.
I share some of sqad's thoughts on closure. Maybe I've been lucky never to need it but i think the term is often trotted out when someone can't put into words/explain why they want a particular outcome. And in some cases (and I'm talking generally and not about the Savile case) I think closure means 'getting my compensation payment' (but that expression is avoided) or seeing someone punished

[rockyracoon]

Perhaps then I would define closure as acceptance.

[murraymints]

I agree with you Sqad..but at least some satisfaction is gained from being believed...

[naomi24]

//But their psychological symptoms and mental state is likely to persist....despite....closure.//

I agree, but whilst nothing will ever erase their traumatic memories, they must feel a certain sense of justice in the exposure and public condemnation of their abuser. This is not 'closure'; 'justice' of course, hasn't been done, and since the perpetrator is dead, can never be done - but this is as close as the victims can get to feeling that 'right' has, after all these years, prevailed.

[pastafreak]

I don't think closure is ever a final outcome,as it can be applied to a whole range of possibly traumatic,life-changing events-including abuse,divorce,the death of a loved one,etc., that are dealt with in differing ways.
It is more likely to be defined as a point in a persons life where they can move forward. Maybe not forgetting,and quite possibly not any 'happier',but less likely to dwell on the events that have caused distress.

I first heard of it in specifically in relation to the families / relatives of murder victims coming face to face with the person who committed the crime. This was part of a program that was in use in prisons in the US.
Since then the definition seems to have become broader.

[Eve]

I agree with Rocky, there is something cathartic in being believed, it being accepted what happened, that it was wrong etc... I feel that there can be a lot of negative and skewed thoughts over what happened, depending on the circumstances, confusion over blame, feelings of guilt, the whole dirty secret issue, it rebounds some of the evil of what happened back on the victim.

I think the fact that it was in a time when things like that weren't talked about so much, buried and kept quiet and the subsequent knock on effect on the victim can do a lot of damage in its own right.

It will never disappear but something is better than nothing when you're living with a life sentence of the after effects of abuse. It could be a useful stepping point for people to move on from, get help, accept help, be more open about it... Acceptance is a big step in itself.

[whiskeryron]

I do agree with all that has been said about this dreadful affair but I can't help wondering how many of the 'victims' brought it on themselves by pushing themselves forward to have a fling with a notoriety, after all JS is no longer here to make denials about any of them.

WR.

[daffy654]

I don't believe in closure. I think you just learn to live with abuse or you let it control your life. I chose to live with it.
What doesn't kill us makes us stronger.

[sandyRoe]

I supose if Savile was still here he might defend himself by saying that those 13 year old temptresses, those little Lolitas, were really the ones to blame and he was the victim in all this.

[Sqad]

Closure...a nebulous concept and that is the best outcome.

All excellent answers.....tempted to give the best answer to who agrees with me, or my "mates.>

BUT...wait for it......best answer......wait.....naomi .......

[McMouse]

I have heard it said that many victims of sexual abuse feel they carry guilt and it was somehow 'all their fault'. Exposure of the activities of JS may well provide 'closure' to some of the victims as they come to realise they were innocent.

[gness]

Morning Sqad. May I, belatedly, add my twopence worth? So many thoughtful answers but the two who stand out for me are Daffy's and Murray's.
After plucking up courage to tell, not being believed is almost as damaging as the abuse. When someone finally does believe you the relief is astonishing but the psychological symptoms don't disappear. It's how one deals with those symptoms that matters.
Like Daffy, I don't believe in or really know what closure means It's an overused word in so many situations these days. I chose, once I was old enough, to put it in a place where, though never forgotten, was not going to effect or harm the rest of my life.
He died before he could be punished. Neither punishment nor compensation would have altered what had happened. I, like Daffy have dealt with it and not let it control my life.
Damn! I've been going on which you didn't want. Could just have said I have no idea what this "closure" word really means.

[tonyav]

Very good answer, gness. Sorry to hear it though. x

[TOWIE]

Morning Sqad and All

There is never 'closure' if you have been abused - just the fact that these women have brought this to public attention and that others have also suffered, will, perhaps, go some way to help heal wounds.

[dotty.]

no I'm sorry but using the term 'closure' for anything but the end of a good relationship gone bad is just not enough. It's the same as saying 'that's put and end to it' when quite clearly there isn't an end to anything whilst it can still be brought to mind with mixed feelings. it's term that has been thrust upon us by the trendy folks who are shallow and follow the fashion rather than think in any kind of of depth. Noone can put themselves in anyone else's shoes or mindset and to put a label on something for the sake of sounbding cool and hip is not helpful.

[dotty.]

the typos are due to an erratic connection to my wifi this morning, probably brought on by the shock of sunshine through the window

[Sqad]

gness, daffy,dotty...et al.
Thanks for your comments.

Closure at best seems to be ineffectual and at worst misunderstood.

So many interesting answers and opinions.

[Psybbo]

I put all good and bad down to experience, good is ok, bad, learn and avoid all possible situations where it could recur

[DTCwordfan]

There is justice and there is closure - the latter is an ephemeral term - to me it's when someone lives with what had happened and can rationalise it and not have it impact too much on the short term actions and thoughts. However, there may be several "closures" perhaps with the "tremors" that occur.....i.e. victims had this happen, got through it, and then, if it hasn't happened before, the incident surfaces for whatever reason, (as with JS). The memories come flooding back and then they have to be reassessed, re "compartmentalised" etc and things go "peaceful" again.

However, it never goes away, believe me.