Body & Soul0 min ago
Purgatory or Hell
39 Answers
I have read all the posts contained in besos Creation of Hell but no one mentioned the greatest money spinner of them all the use of Purgatory .
It was the half way place between Heaven and Hell and you could pay the church to reduce or remove the time you spent in Purgatory. It was a
Semi-Hell and cleansing place where everyone went for weeks or unto eternity depending on their level of sin. Even stillborn babies went there because they possessed man's original sin and neither had they been baptised.
However this could be reduced by paying the RC church every couple of weeks for indulgences . As a result the church owned two thirds of all the wealth in Europe up to the time of the reformation. Those sinners who couldn't or wouldn't pay were the ones who ended up in true hell.
Was it a RC invention or was it inferred to in the bible. ?
Is it still practiced in a different form.?
It was the half way place between Heaven and Hell and you could pay the church to reduce or remove the time you spent in Purgatory. It was a
Semi-Hell and cleansing place where everyone went for weeks or unto eternity depending on their level of sin. Even stillborn babies went there because they possessed man's original sin and neither had they been baptised.
However this could be reduced by paying the RC church every couple of weeks for indulgences . As a result the church owned two thirds of all the wealth in Europe up to the time of the reformation. Those sinners who couldn't or wouldn't pay were the ones who ended up in true hell.
Was it a RC invention or was it inferred to in the bible. ?
Is it still practiced in a different form.?
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bigbad You used the term # we god-fearing catholics # . It might be more true to say RC fearing catholics. It is not God you fear but the wrath , if that's not too strong a word, of your own church with its head the Pope.
I've seen men almost shaking because they might miss or had missed going to church.
Thousands have died from Aids because your church has banned contraception.
And of course the covering up of the abuse of children by successive Popes
have attracted widespread criticism, and you catholics have done virtually nothing about it because you are too frightened to do so. It is that failure which is the greatest sin rather than the acts themselves.
I've seen men almost shaking because they might miss or had missed going to church.
Thousands have died from Aids because your church has banned contraception.
And of course the covering up of the abuse of children by successive Popes
have attracted widespread criticism, and you catholics have done virtually nothing about it because you are too frightened to do so. It is that failure which is the greatest sin rather than the acts themselves.
As others have already said, the concept of purgatory is entirely invented by the Christian Church. There is absolutely no evidence for it. It's not in the Bible nor any other sacred text. It was simply a massive money making scam to deprive both the poorest of people and the richest of people of their money by claiming that a dead person's soul needed to be prayed for in order to reach Heaven. And those prayers came at some considerable cost.
The concept of praying for a person to ascend to Heaven is obscene and the flagrant charlatans who invented and perpetuated this insane idea would find themselves in Hell if there were any justice. But of course, there isn't and Hell is just another man-made concept.
As I understand it, the whole concept of paying your local church to say mass for a dead loved one in order to get him or her through purgatory has now been abandoned. I wonder if they'll be redistributing the monies that they knowingly and fraudulently extorted from the grief-stricken, sobbing masses any time soon?
The concept of praying for a person to ascend to Heaven is obscene and the flagrant charlatans who invented and perpetuated this insane idea would find themselves in Hell if there were any justice. But of course, there isn't and Hell is just another man-made concept.
As I understand it, the whole concept of paying your local church to say mass for a dead loved one in order to get him or her through purgatory has now been abandoned. I wonder if they'll be redistributing the monies that they knowingly and fraudulently extorted from the grief-stricken, sobbing masses any time soon?
Modeller, 'Bible Gateway' could not find any reference to purgatory in the bible (king James version) so best draw your own conclusions.
The catholic church has been making stuff up since it's (immaculate) conception. I will steal Wharton's tactic and say that 96 % of it's 'truths' did not appear in the bible but are derived from the bible's irrational logic. What fascinates me is that when a theology is based on a flawed hypothesis it gets sillier and sillier but it's proponents don't dare to notice for any number of reasons. Mix this with philosophy and you really are on the road to (a metephorical)hell or perhaps just purgatory. (Give me 5 bob and I'll see you alright)
The catholic church has been making stuff up since it's (immaculate) conception. I will steal Wharton's tactic and say that 96 % of it's 'truths' did not appear in the bible but are derived from the bible's irrational logic. What fascinates me is that when a theology is based on a flawed hypothesis it gets sillier and sillier but it's proponents don't dare to notice for any number of reasons. Mix this with philosophy and you really are on the road to (a metephorical)hell or perhaps just purgatory. (Give me 5 bob and I'll see you alright)
Wharton, I don’t understand why you think the people contributing to these pages target Roman Catholicism above all other religions. You only have to look at threads involving, say, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or Islam, or Scientology, to see that isn’t true. I would say the majority of the non-believers here regard all religion as false and damaging. And, don’t you think it’s rather unfair to accuse the queen of bigotry? Yes, she plays her role as a figurehead, but you have no idea what she thinks privately – and she can hardly defend herself – unless she registers under another user name, of course. ;o)
I don't believe the idea of purgatory was originally designed as a money spinner.
I think the idea came from the need to offer hope to those who weren't saints.
Tour average medieval peasant would have looked at the aesthetic monks and priests shut up on islands or whipping themselves and asked themselves "If this is what it takes to get into heaven what chance do I have?"
So the need arose to have a staging post to give such people hope
I think the idea came from the need to offer hope to those who weren't saints.
Tour average medieval peasant would have looked at the aesthetic monks and priests shut up on islands or whipping themselves and asked themselves "If this is what it takes to get into heaven what chance do I have?"
So the need arose to have a staging post to give such people hope
Is it the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church that the Pope is infallible? Surely some refinement or spin has been put on that bald statement by now. Otherwise, every time a Pope makes a pronouncement which goes against, or modifies, what a previous Pope has said, the infallibility of one or the other must be doubted.
wharton cont. I think there is/was a lot wrong with RC but that is a far cry from hatred. Did I make a personal attack on the present Pope ?
On the other hand it was you who described the Queen as a bigot . I think when you use the word hatred you should look to yourself.
May I add being as I have no religion it makes no difference to me what you chose to call any head of any religion .
On the other hand it was you who described the Queen as a bigot . I think when you use the word hatred you should look to yourself.
May I add being as I have no religion it makes no difference to me what you chose to call any head of any religion .
LOL @Khandro. Popes are like the editor referred to. The practice seems to be to explain any apparent change of tack as a mere evolution, or further explanation, of doctrine , which remains true nonetheless. And if you change course imperceptibly, by one degree at a time, and are consistent, you end up going in the other direction eventually ( but nobody on your ship may have noticed by then!)
jake #Tour average medieval peasant would have looked at the aesthetic monks and priests shut up on islands or whipping themselves.#
I think you are referring to a tiny minority. Most monks ,priests and friars lived a good life . Fat Abbots and Friars are proverbial. Also the early Christian church sold indulgences or similar, mainly to the wealthy . It wasn't until later that it spread to the peasants and then there were several thousand collectors who called every 10 days on the rich and the poor. It was this practice that brought about the reformation.
I think you are referring to a tiny minority. Most monks ,priests and friars lived a good life . Fat Abbots and Friars are proverbial. Also the early Christian church sold indulgences or similar, mainly to the wealthy . It wasn't until later that it spread to the peasants and then there were several thousand collectors who called every 10 days on the rich and the poor. It was this practice that brought about the reformation.
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