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Obstructive tenants
Can a tenant wilfully obstruct the purchase of a Landlord's premises to try and buy the premises for themselves should the Landlord wish to sell, or is there a law against this?
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Jackthehat
May I please take you up on your offer of talking about the cost of CoU by exchanging email addresses? I am getting really cheesed off and am thinking of not bothering with any conversion but just sell my office on as a going concern without tenant interference, despite the fact I'll get less money.
May I please take you up on your offer of talking about the cost of CoU by exchanging email addresses? I am getting really cheesed off and am thinking of not bothering with any conversion but just sell my office on as a going concern without tenant interference, despite the fact I'll get less money.
Trooper, Kinda think maybe 'jackthehat' was being funny! I think what he meant was if you were willing to pay 5 -10K for those services then he was yer man!! Maybe I'm wrong! I think though, you have hit the nail on the head, sometimes it's best to sell up and get out and just cut your losses, sounds to me that you aren't even getting much sleep with the whole business playing on your mind.
The only people win in these situations are the lawyers when they hit you with their bill, and it could all take long enough to sort out.
The only people win in these situations are the lawyers when they hit you with their bill, and it could all take long enough to sort out.
And I don't think you can evict them just because they are going to be difficult about planning.
You would also have to declare a 'dispute' perhaps which may put buyers off or lower the asking price.
I am still not sure about the tenants though! Are they owners of a 93 year lease or tenants? If the former then you would have to have cast iron reasons for eviction.
You would also have to declare a 'dispute' perhaps which may put buyers off or lower the asking price.
I am still not sure about the tenants though! Are they owners of a 93 year lease or tenants? If the former then you would have to have cast iron reasons for eviction.
That's exactly what I meant, Beauj :o)
Seriously, though..............
What is now starting to happen/has happened is that you and these other folks are taking seriously entrenched positions where you are both failing to see the others point of view.
Without accommodation being made by one or the other of you, this stalemate is likely to remain. Both parties seem to have their eyes fixed on the potential big money return at the conclusion of the Planning process.
The flat is their home, and whilst you may run your business from downstairs, at the end of the day, you'll toddle off to your home elsewhere. They may want to make sure that they are in the driving seat regarding any development that would impact on their home. And just think how you would feel if anyone were to threaten to heave you out of your house or to be consulting web-sites to see if they have grounds to do so because you being there doesn't fit in with their plans.
I think that you really need to find some middle ground, however hard that may be.
And never one to look a gift horse, etc.............which part of the country are you in ? :o)
Seriously, though..............
What is now starting to happen/has happened is that you and these other folks are taking seriously entrenched positions where you are both failing to see the others point of view.
Without accommodation being made by one or the other of you, this stalemate is likely to remain. Both parties seem to have their eyes fixed on the potential big money return at the conclusion of the Planning process.
The flat is their home, and whilst you may run your business from downstairs, at the end of the day, you'll toddle off to your home elsewhere. They may want to make sure that they are in the driving seat regarding any development that would impact on their home. And just think how you would feel if anyone were to threaten to heave you out of your house or to be consulting web-sites to see if they have grounds to do so because you being there doesn't fit in with their plans.
I think that you really need to find some middle ground, however hard that may be.
And never one to look a gift horse, etc.............which part of the country are you in ? :o)
Trooper - I note that you have ignored (or discounted) my observation that your perception of the cost of applying for PP is �10k. It would only ever be that sort of figure IF the local authority forced you into a S106 Agreement payment in exchange for granting PP - it is not an upfront cost - which, as Jack seems to agree, is what I indicated.
Builder, I am not discounting you at all.Its just that what you're talking about is way over my head. As I mentioned earlier, more than one person has said it will be a minimum of �5K for planning permission and plus architects, surveyors and lawyers fees taken into consideration plus any 'hidden' extras, it could well be they wouldn't get much change out of �10K.One thing I have established since yesterday, is that the lead tenant has agreed to a time limit to raise a mortgage which wasn't made clear by them before. I actually gave them an ultimatum that I wouldn't bother selling the premisies to them without a time limit agreement for them to raise the mortgage.
I don't know Jack. A prospective developer mentioned 3 units but the 3rd unit would be built on top of theirs. All I know is what they have revealed to me so far which is the purchase price, �140K, their agreement now to a time limit to raise the mortgage and they will bear the cost of planning permission.If they can't raise the mortgage by a certain time, I am free to sell the converted residential property on the open market. But that doesn't mean they will grant or allow any new owner to make plans for himself/herself. As I referred to before, I entered the heading to this question as "Obstructive tenants" for a reason. I suspect they would make life difficult for any new prospective owner.That's why vacant possession is a much more viable proposition for any estate agent these days. A couple of estae agents have walked away already.
You are contemplating a scenario where these house-holders will be sandwiched between an office conversion at Ground Floor Level and a roof-lift over their heads, is that correct ?
Think I might be a little tetchy if that was going to happen to me...........
Usually, once Planning Permission has been gained (by you or them) any objections to the project are assumed to have been dealt with.
There may be other legal issues (Party Wall Act, for example) which will come into play as you embark upon construction.
However, once the properties are built/converted your sitting tenants ought to present no bar to their sale...........and if they do, I'm afraid you'll have to seek a different legal remedy from oiking them out on their ears....
Think I might be a little tetchy if that was going to happen to me...........
Usually, once Planning Permission has been gained (by you or them) any objections to the project are assumed to have been dealt with.
There may be other legal issues (Party Wall Act, for example) which will come into play as you embark upon construction.
However, once the properties are built/converted your sitting tenants ought to present no bar to their sale...........and if they do, I'm afraid you'll have to seek a different legal remedy from oiking them out on their ears....
Hi Jack
They've already said no to a flat on top of theirs and I don't blame them. For once, it may be for legitimate causes. But the lead tenant has written down in black and white that he WOULD obstruct planning for years due to the number of party walls we share. Although the real reason is that they want the building for themselves. One coup I've made is that they' agreed to a time limit on the mortgage raising issue which was absent before.Also, if you are serious the planning permissions etc really don't cost as much as �10K, I whall ask for more money. Joking aside, how much do you think planning permission will cost, bearing in mind they have a close architect friend who may charge them minimum costs, if at all?
They've already said no to a flat on top of theirs and I don't blame them. For once, it may be for legitimate causes. But the lead tenant has written down in black and white that he WOULD obstruct planning for years due to the number of party walls we share. Although the real reason is that they want the building for themselves. One coup I've made is that they' agreed to a time limit on the mortgage raising issue which was absent before.Also, if you are serious the planning permissions etc really don't cost as much as �10K, I whall ask for more money. Joking aside, how much do you think planning permission will cost, bearing in mind they have a close architect friend who may charge them minimum costs, if at all?
From Lambeth Council Website.
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlan ning/Planning/ScheduleFees.htm
If you have a look around this, you'll get an idea of the 'Statutory Fees' you'll need to pay.
Rather than engaging an Architect, you will get equally profficient service from an Architectural Technologist; usually our fees are considerably less...........Have a look on t'internet or Yellow Pages for someone.
Naturally, you'll need to engage a Solicitor, possibly one who will deal with Planning Appeals, to look after your interests.
I'm at the other end of the country, so I can't actually help you.
Sorry.
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlan ning/Planning/ScheduleFees.htm
If you have a look around this, you'll get an idea of the 'Statutory Fees' you'll need to pay.
Rather than engaging an Architect, you will get equally profficient service from an Architectural Technologist; usually our fees are considerably less...........Have a look on t'internet or Yellow Pages for someone.
Naturally, you'll need to engage a Solicitor, possibly one who will deal with Planning Appeals, to look after your interests.
I'm at the other end of the country, so I can't actually help you.
Sorry.
That's the Schedule of fees for the statutory planning application - as already discussed.
This is the Guidance on S106 Agreements in Wandsworth - extremely long and tedious document which build up cost models for each of the elements of local infrastructure. Quicker an easier to ask someone locally what the going rate is per Affordable Housing Unit for a development scheme that is not a Major Development (more than 10 Units).
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlan ning/Planning/PlanningPolicy/Adopted-S106Plann ingObligationsSPD.htm
It is typically about �15k for 3 additional Units that you are proposing.
Ask for an informal meeting with Planners if you haven't already done so, regarding the prospects for getting planning on this site. Agree with Jack that putting a unit on top of a sitting tenant is probably a bridge to far. It can and has been done - remember the bloke on Grand Designs that built a whole new flat on the roof of a six storey block of flats on Brighton Seafront? - they were freehold flats below him, but he did it. That got through planning.
This is the Guidance on S106 Agreements in Wandsworth - extremely long and tedious document which build up cost models for each of the elements of local infrastructure. Quicker an easier to ask someone locally what the going rate is per Affordable Housing Unit for a development scheme that is not a Major Development (more than 10 Units).
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/HousingPlan ning/Planning/PlanningPolicy/Adopted-S106Plann ingObligationsSPD.htm
It is typically about �15k for 3 additional Units that you are proposing.
Ask for an informal meeting with Planners if you haven't already done so, regarding the prospects for getting planning on this site. Agree with Jack that putting a unit on top of a sitting tenant is probably a bridge to far. It can and has been done - remember the bloke on Grand Designs that built a whole new flat on the roof of a six storey block of flats on Brighton Seafront? - they were freehold flats below him, but he did it. That got through planning.
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