Anti Semitism

[Lonnie]

It appears to me, that Anti-Semitism/Jewish is on the rise in Britain.

I'd like your opinions please, and if you think it is, why.

Thanks.

[jno]

Lonnie, I've read this a lot but I don't know how true it is. Nobody I know has ever seemed in the least anti-Semitic. Perhaps I just don't move in nasty enough circles. It does seem that a lot of attacks on Jewish cemeteries etc are carried out by Muslims, and that this relates ultimately to the conflict between Israel and Palestinians. (I've just posted on another thread that Israelis and Jews aren't the same thing, but it often suits both Israelis and Muslims to pretend otherwise.) But this doesn't necessarily point to a wider outbreak of anti-Semitism among Britons in general.

I do know a lot of people who oppose some of the actions of the Israeli state (including me). Some think Israel shouldn't exist - as do some Jews, for religious reasons. But this isn't the same as anti-Semitism.

[beryllium]

Hi There Lonnie :-)
I stayed in Israel for a long time. March 2001-. They were starting to get agitated. Talk of recall back to the army, and a man just simply wanting to get on with his life, with his family.
And the Government? Via the National Service. Wanted them to give their/his life. He had no choice.
His tone was of shear anger at the politics and pressure to them. And he was frightened. HAVE NO DOUBT.
Why was he being Forced to fight? He had no choice.
And They still are. 2007.
I don't know if he's dead.

In answer to your Q imo.
I haven't actually read any anti stuff. I do remeber one comment from the family I stayed with though. They had a house in Eilat. Bomb Shelter very close lol
One member of the family was not PC in his comments about the Orthodox side of Judaism :-) and that is the only Anti-Semetic comment I have ever heard.

Q. For you at this point please :)
On Friday evenings, the Woman/Lady of the house, would light candles on a special shaped candlestick, and move circular waves in front of it, whilst saying a prayer. Every Friday without fail.
Could you tell me what that was please?

P.S Hope I haven't blahed too much lol.... :-) xxx

[jno]

Beryllium, have a look at 'Shabbat rituals' on this page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Sabbath

[beryllium]

That was fantastic. Thank you jno :-)
Interesting reading about the Muslim Religion following The Sabbath close to the Jewish manner for the first 2 centurys after Muhammad. (adaption by other religions)

When did it truly start to break down? and why?

btw Lonnie :-) I had the best chicken soup whilst there. xxx Good for the Soul.

I do also remember Sunday just being a normal working day and the cleaner coming first thing lol.....

[Lonnie]

Hi beryllium and jno.
Thanks very much for replying, sorry I couldn't get back on sooner.

beryllium,
thats ann excellent link jno posted, so i'll just mention the womans hand actions, all she's doing is ushering in the Sabbath, a bit like beckoning.

jno,
I'm glad you replied, because I know i'll get an even handed and well thought out answer.

My thinking on this, actually ties in with some of what you've written, eg, the Israli-Palestinian conflict.
But regardless of their position, for or against Israels actions, it seems to me, that Jews who have never been to Israel, get blamed for what is happening over there, and your right, most of the anti Semitism/Jewish, is coming from the Muslims, (not actually sure you could call that anti-semitism, as Arabs are semites to,

Historically, Anti-Semitism was the perogotive of the far right, but now, the left is getting in on it too, and from what i've seen, Middle England also is getting involved, with marches etc, but I think the majotity of it, is as has been said, tied to the state of Israel, and yes, I also oppose some of the things Israel has done, as do the Israeli branch of my family, but no-one seems to come out en masse about the actions of the Arab states that surround Israel, or groups like Hamas, when they launch rockets into Israel, only when Israel retaliates do you get protests.

[jno]

This is a link that jake-the-peg posted on another thread

http://thereport.amnesty.org/eng/Regions/Middl e-East-and-North-Africa/Israel-and-the-Occupie d-Territories

As you see it says that since an outbreak of violence (I'm not sure exactly which period this refers to, but the report is the current one for 2007) Israeli forces have killed three times as many Palestinians as before while Palestinians killed only half as many Israelis.

I think this tallies with what many people thought about the fighting against Lebanon a while back: that Israeli reactions to violence are very excessive. (In the case of Lebanon, it was because a soldier had been captured.)

The result is that Israel seems like an international bully, kicking smaller groups around, much as the USA is also seen. People then feel free to disapprove of Israeli actions while not worrying too much about those of Arab armed groups. Why worry about them when they're having so little effect but being killed in such greater numbers?

I'm not sure just why Israel is so lethally heavy-handed about all this - a feeling of insecurity, I suppose. But it inevitably makes their opponents look like the underdogs; and people like underdogs, whereas they don't like bullies.

[Lonnie]

Whilst I agree totally with Israeli retaliation, and its always retaliation, I also agree that most of the time they go over the top, well over the top, so you have no arguements on that score from me.

But my point, is that because Israel has, shall we say, over reacted, non participant Jews in this country, probably others as well, even those that don't agree with Israeli actions, are getting blamed for whats happening, and thats getting more prevalent.

As an example, I have nothing to do with whats happening in the Middle East, and even though I, personally, have not had any ill feeling towards me for being a Jew, other than the odd remark, I know plenty that have.

[ruby27]

I am in no position to disagree with your experience of a rise in Anti Semitism.
I am surprised in some ways given the anti Muslim hysteria prevalent, that people in Britain have the time/energy to be particularly anti anyone else. Is it possible that many people have such a fear and misunderstanding of the implications of immigration that there is a hostility to anyone and everyone, even to the point of not understanding that people of Jewish faith are from which ever country they are from including Israel? I am not aware of any reason why there should be an increased anti semitic feeling other than this is something that unfortunately has a very long history in Britain and therefore could always re emerge.
The lack of public outcry does not surprise me. Can you remember many public demonstrations about anything happening in another country? I can not at present recall any, we don't really go in for that sort of thing unless its about Hunting.

[NJOK]

To some extent, I think what we're seeing is down to genuine anti-semites piggy-backing the more rational and legitimate cause of liberals - which is damaging in two ways.

One, it obscures the liberals' argument to the extent that any criticism of Israel's draconian behaviour marks you out as a 'Jew hater', which can't be good for the debate.

And two, it gives a more rational-sounding voice to dangerous anti-semites. Whereas they might previously have fallen back on meat-headed groundless taunts and abuse, they can now use actual real-world politics as a front for their bigotry.

[Lonnie]

fender,
I go along with what your saying, but is it fair to take it out on a British Jew for what the state of Israel has, or is doing?.

Thats the point of this thread, because it is happenening.

[maxximus]

anti-semitism is perpatrated by the media, propaganda, pure and simple always has been. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20070702_a _declaration_of_independence_from_israel/