Socialism, Can It Ever Work?

[ToraToraTora]

Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary why do so many, often appearing intelligent, people still believe that socialism can work? Perhaps those that do can explain the mechanisms by which they think it could. Thanks.

[naomi24]

Curiously, none of the socialists here have taken up TTT's invitation to explain the mechanisms by which socialism can work.

[bainbrig]

Naomi. I’ve already written my reason for not playing with the snotty-nosed urchins in the sandpit (“A bit like someone at a National Front meeting jumping up and shouting “Do we want more immigration, brothers and sisters?””)

If that’s too subtle, which is quite possible, a simpler way of telling the story is this.

What is the point of arguing about putting out fires with a bunch of arsonists?

[jim360]

It's just about moderation. As to the idea that the NHS was a Tory initiative -- well, maybe they should have got around to it a lot earlier then, if they wanted actual credit. But the history of legislative accomplishments shows quite clearly that it is Labour (and, prior to them, the Liberals) who drive socialist initiatives forward more frequently and far more effectively.

[jim360]

Incidentally, when Naomi says that the NHS "began with a report, published by a Liberal economist", presumably she's referring to the Beveridge Report. But that was commissioned by a Labour politician, Arthur Greenwood. So the Tories *still* don't get credit -- and, incidentally, the fact that it didn't happen under a Tory government isn't just because of the War but because other Tory ministers tried to block it.

Sorry, Tory folks, but the credit for the NHS is due, deservedly, to Labour, and revisionist attempts to claim the contrary are misguided and wrong.

[naomi24]

bainbrig, //the snotty-nosed urchins in the sandpit//

Who would they be then? You bang on about socialism, you liberally throw insults around, but when push comes to shove you're an intellectual lightweight with no sensible argument to offer. That much is abundantly clear.

Jim, //It's just about moderation. //

What is? Socialism?

[naomi24]

Jim, //the credit for the NHS is due, deservedly, to Labour, and revisionist attempts to claim the contrary are misguided and wrong.//

No one has made any attempts to award the Tory's the accolade for founding the NHS... simply corrected your erroneous claim that the NHS was a Labour ideal. It wasn't.

[naomi24]

*Tories* - blinking predictive text.

[jim360]

Everything in moderation -- but, in the particular context of this thread, then socialism in particular. I wouldn't want to live under a pure any-system, really, if nothing else because being too passionately devoted to a philosophy blinds you to the possibility that other systems have something useful to offer.

[beso]

I once lived in a socialist community. "From each according to their ability and to each according to their need".

I found myself doing a lot for needy people who had very little ability.

[naomi24]

//I found myself doing a lot for needy people who had very little ability. //

Or, as I said on the first page, for those who had ability but preferred not to use it, claiming need instead. The easy option.

[Theland]

An awful accusation Naomi.
Do you wear blinkers?

[Theland]

Some hearts of stone on here.

[naomi24]

//An awful accusation Naomi. //

Really? Why?

//Do you wear blinkers? //

No - but you do.

[Theland]

We have some Socialism already.
The NHS, the education services, the police, etc etc. Wherever the needs of the many are met by all, that is Socialism.
Also, when bankers, led by (Sir) Fred The Shred Godwin, former CEO of RBS run into trouble through their own greed, then the many, ( without being asked,) fork out billions to pay for their mistakes and criminality. (Nobody ever prosecuted.), then thT is Socialism. The many helping the few, ( in this case who remain basking in their millions!)
But Capitalism is alive and well. The poverty ridden working class or those too unfortunate to find a job, suffer the full brunt of market forces.
In my opinion.
No dinner parties for them! Just food banks!

[Theland]

Naomi, your comments on this thread are really out of touch. Sorry but true!