What's A Little Anti-Semitism Among Friends Eh?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36719932
Come back all is forgiven!

[vetuste_ennemi]

You're confusing Mecca and Medina, Hypo. There were three Jewish tribes in Medina when Mohammed arrived there in 623 AD as a "refugee". As Mohammed became more powerful this became two, then one and finally none. The first two were expelled keeping there lives, but forfeiting their property. The Banu Qurayza were less fortunate. You should read a biography of the Prophet. Even Karen ("God, isn't Mo hot!") Armstrong was a little embarrassed by the slaughter of eight hundred male POWs.
Yes, I'm aware of the exegesis of the sort "In general, war in Islam is not to coerce people into accepting faith, but rather to remove disorder, conflicts or oppression in the world,[71] as it hopes to establish justice, equity, peace and security.[56]". You do know what "disorder, conflicts and oppression in the world" means, don't you? Or how it is usually interpreted by the faithful?

Not aware of the authorities you quote. Will check out the tafsir of Ibn
Kathir and Maududi both of whose tafsir I've downloaded. Meanwhile, on the matter of coercion, I'll repeat the teaching of the Shafi'i school of jurisprudence from "The Reliance of the Traveller". This English translation has the imprimatur of respected modern Sunni universities.
The translation is interspersed with notes by the translator and it's not always easy to see which is original text and which is modern commentary. However, the basic meaning is clear enough:

"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims,and is etymologically derived from the wordmujahada, signifying warfare to establish thereligion....The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus ... is such Koranic
verses as:
(1) "Fighting is prescribed for you" (Koran 2:216);
(2) "Slay them wherever you find them" (Koran 4:89);
(3) "Fight the idolators utterly" (Koran 9:36);
and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
"I have been commanded to fight peopleuntil they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and
perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me."

[birdie1971]

VE

Mehdi Hasan is a sheep in wolf's clothing par excellence. He likes to claim to be one of the moderate muslims attempting to drag Islam into the modern era by exposing and questioning some of its more unpalatable verses in an effort to appear appealing to non-muslims. Unfortunately, behind closed doors, he is quite willing to say the most vile things about non-muslims and actively promotes the Islamic world view of total domination.

[birdie1971]

VE

Sorry – I should have thanked you earlier for the links. Ta muchly.

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Ta muchly.//

No need, Birdie.

Was delighted that Hypo actually bothered to read some of the Koran. I re-read Sura 2 myself. It's a cracker, isn't it? Not only does it have the much loved "No compulsion in religion" (up there with "... it is as if he had killed the whole of mankind" once quoted by a well-known polymath and AB moderator as proof that Islam is a religion of peace), but it has the really fun bit about Allah turning the disobedient Jews into pigs and monkeys. And, of course, it sets the tone for the rest of the book in its assertion of Allah's hatred of the Jews. I hope Hypo goes on to read the whole of Sura 9.

Hypo's experts are new to me. Both Shafi'i, but the one 13th century Persia and the other a modern Egyptian according to Wiki. The commentaries I've read on Sura 9 are Ibn Kathir (14th century Syria) and Maududi (20th century Pakistan).

Here's Ibn Kathir on Sura 9:

http://www.quranwebsite.com/tafsir%20ibn%20kathir/ibn_009_at_towbah.html

Particularly love that part of the commentary on verse 29 which deals with the jizyah. The meaning and purpose of jizyah is one of the paragraph headings in the link.