Ukip Woes.

[Gromit]

In its bid to compete directly with Labour for the most shambolic leadership contest, UKIP look set to split as well.

Farage and his donor are hinting at a new party. Steven Woolfe who missed the deadline to submit his leader application (but that is somehow everyone elses fault) is scathing at the NEC. Suzanne Evans remains suspended so cannot stand. Meanwhile they have Tory MP who does not agree with any UKIP policies.

Is the best idea to rip it all up and start again.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/696140/Ukip-leadership-election-Steven-Woolfe-ineligible-Nigel-Farage

[ichkeria]

*Sane :-)

[mikey4444]

ichkeria.....I have always been somewhat puzzled over the "protest vote"

What exactly is the point of protest votes ? If millions of people voted UKIP as a protest, what did they achieve ?

Voting UKIP must be akin to peeing yourself, while wearing dark trousers....you get this warm feeling but nobody else notices.

[naomi24]

^Best not to mention what Labour has done in its pants. ;o)

[Togo]

Thank you youngmafbog I did get the SNP and UKIP vote shares the wrong way around. Even more shocking then really. UKIP need 3.9 million votes per seat, SNP only need 25,000 votes for every seat. When you look at the disproportionate noise coming from this tiny vote in the UK General Election you know that the time to change the false representation has arrived.

[mikey4444]

Togo....of you look at the stats that I provided 16:41, you will see that UKIP doesn't need anything like 3.9 millions votes to get a seat in the House of Commons !

Plaid Cymru managed to get 3 seats for only 181, 704 votes !


So I am still unsure why UKIP needs PR ?

[ichkeria]

Not everyone votes UKIP as a 'protest' Mikey just as many never voted LibDem for that reason also. But if you look, for example, at places like Clacton and other deprived areas, with minimal immigration, that's plainly a vote of the disaffected who feel the world has passed them by. And even Boston, with large immigration, where people (SO THEY CLAIM) voted UKIP because they are fed up with their lot - attributable to the evils of successive Tory and labour Govts. And not because they don't like Polish fruit harvesters, say.
Same thing with the referendum: it was a protest vote that swung it, and if you read between the lines of some of the anti EU posts here, you can plainly see strains of discontent, with pro EU-ers often seen as 'elite' (!) or upholders of the 'establishment' At every turn wealthy ex banker N Farage painted himself as the voice of the common man against 'them' - highly successfully

[Togo]

That is exactly what PR is about mikey. Number of votes is proportional to the number of seats gained. Not difficult to understand surely. Note. Number of votes cast for a party not number of constituents or wards "won"

[mikey4444]

Togo...we don't use PR to send MPs to Westminster !

How about my question about PC versus UKIP ?

If PC can obtain 3 MPs from such a small electorate, without the aid of PR, why can't UKIP ?

Might it be that UKIP is not as popular as PC in Wales ? The example is even more so when you look at the results of the SNP....why did just 1,454,436 votes produce 56 MPs for the SNP ?

If UKIP had restricted itself to a few Westminster seats, in say, the South East of England, might they have got a few more than 1 MP ?

[mikey4444]

ichkeria...in what way exactly was Farage highly successful ( beyond the Referendum results) ?

He has resigned as Leader of a Party, that he wasn't able to represent at Westminster, and a Party that only returned 1 MP.

In what way was that "successful" ?

To put it another way, what would UKIP and Farage have had to do to be "unsuccessful" ?

[ichkeria]

He was successful Mikey in that people fell for it. And he managed to achieve his aim of getting an EU referendum, with the desired result. Tho of course whether that result will lead to an 'independent uk' is highly debatable. Then he disappeared in a puff of smoke. Easy . Not like those awful politicians who hang around to follow through their vision :-) In my view this betrayed the fact that he had no vision beyond sticking it to the Brussels bureaucrats

[Togo]

Mikey for someone who lives in Wales you are very naïve regarding Plaid Cymru. They are the Welsh version of, as is SNP in Scotland, UKIP in England.
Farage was smart enough to call them United Kingdom Independent rather than English Independent to forestall the squeals of fascism and nationalistic jingoism. Although that is perfectly acceptable in Wales, Scotland, and indeed Ireland. Haha job done, the mould is broken.

[Togo]

Plaid Cymru mikey, Welsh Party. ie not for the English.

[Old_Geezer]

They would have achieved a clear signal that their policy to have a referendum held a lot of popular support; very likely resulting in the eventual offer of a referendum and the courage to vote to get out of external control of our country. Result, so far.

[mikey4444]

OG...... Farage said on many occasions that his only ambition was to get agreement on holding the Referendum...........now that we have done, what is the point of UKIP any more ?

[Hopkirk]

I agree Mikey, UKIP might as well disband.

Why would people vote for them now in significant numbers?

They have already achieved their sole aim.

[naomi24]

As disjointed as UKIP appears to be, it is still clearly a thorn in some sides.

[mikey4444]

Hoppy...glad to see that there is at least one other rational person on here today !

Actually, the way they are progressing, especially his week, they are disbanding by default anyway !

[naomi24]

Mikey, will you please stop implying that anyone who disagrees with you is irrational. They are mostly far from that.

[THECORBYLOON]

I am not an expert in PR for electing MPs but I am aware there are various versions so which one should be used to more accurately reflect the support for the various parties? How would any system account for the fact that the major parties can field candidates across the whole of the UK whilst the SNP, Ulster parties and Plaid stand only in their respective countries?

The SNP may have received only 4.7% of the national vote but they received 49.97% of those who voted in Scotland so how would that be reflected by ANY of the PR systems?

[mikey4444]

Corby....the difficulty with UKIP is that they fielded a candidate in (nearly) all constituencies in England, Wales, and Scotland, and that was Farage's mistake.

If he had chosen to direct his fire at places where UKIP might have had a chance, he might not have lost an MP last summer, and might even have got a few more.

To give an example, at random, take Ceredigion in Wales. In 2015, UKIP polled just 3,829 votes, in a fairly safe LibDem seat. What was the point in that ?

It was the same all over Wales....UKIP even fielded candidates in safe PC seats.

In Scotland, UKIP fielded 41 candidates, and acheived just 1.6% of the total vote ! A complete and utter waste of time, and money.

PR isn't going to help UKIP...sensible planning for 2020 will.