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Is There No End To This Ridiculous Political Correctness?
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With respect to that "history according to White people" remark, that was firmly tongue-in-cheek. I don't apologise for making the remark, although I can well appreciate its not being seen in the spirit it was intended. In fact, though, I do expect that people more involved in this movement than I would *would* say that. Make of the accusation what you will, but really it's just a specific case of "history is written by the victors". It is certainly not hypocrisy, whatever you think of it.
Also, please let's not repeat the "anti-British" trope, it's complete nonsense to accuse anyone who says, correctly, that not everything the British people have done in history has been whiter than white is "anti-British". Arguably, the reverse in fact. There's yet another famous quote about history, right, something along the lines of not learning from history means that you are doomed to repeat it? We're made mistakes in the past as a nation, and admitting that is rather a lot healthier for our present and future than constnatly going on as if Britain was the best thing that happened to the world, ever. (This is not the same as apologising for the past. We personally weren't guilty of it, we owe no-one an apology.)
So no. The return charges of hypocrisy, and anti-Britishness, just won't stand. In terms of the original story, I would see it as an excessive response and along with other recent incidents it's sad to see a movement become a parody of itself -- I would really hope that people can see there *is* a legitimate point to all this, that we still have too rose-tinted a view of our own history.
Also, please let's not repeat the "anti-British" trope, it's complete nonsense to accuse anyone who says, correctly, that not everything the British people have done in history has been whiter than white is "anti-British". Arguably, the reverse in fact. There's yet another famous quote about history, right, something along the lines of not learning from history means that you are doomed to repeat it? We're made mistakes in the past as a nation, and admitting that is rather a lot healthier for our present and future than constnatly going on as if Britain was the best thing that happened to the world, ever. (This is not the same as apologising for the past. We personally weren't guilty of it, we owe no-one an apology.)
So no. The return charges of hypocrisy, and anti-Britishness, just won't stand. In terms of the original story, I would see it as an excessive response and along with other recent incidents it's sad to see a movement become a parody of itself -- I would really hope that people can see there *is* a legitimate point to all this, that we still have too rose-tinted a view of our own history.
Svejk,
// Presumably, dressing up in women's clothes would be considered a completely different kettle of fish? //
Thanks for bringing that one up, actually. I didn't want to mention it myself, but I do wonder how the people behind this complaint would react to, err, my occasional choice in clothing.
From my point of view it should come back to intent -- there is a difference between dressing up as someone from another country/ culture/ gender etc in order to poke fun at someone, and doing so out of respect (or even need?). I'd hope that people on both sides can appreciate this difference; my suspicion is that it is as lost on the people who complained about this fancy dress party as it is on those who can't understand what they were even complaining about. Someone, somewhere, is guilty of double standards (or everyone, everywhere?)
// Presumably, dressing up in women's clothes would be considered a completely different kettle of fish? //
Thanks for bringing that one up, actually. I didn't want to mention it myself, but I do wonder how the people behind this complaint would react to, err, my occasional choice in clothing.
From my point of view it should come back to intent -- there is a difference between dressing up as someone from another country/ culture/ gender etc in order to poke fun at someone, and doing so out of respect (or even need?). I'd hope that people on both sides can appreciate this difference; my suspicion is that it is as lost on the people who complained about this fancy dress party as it is on those who can't understand what they were even complaining about. Someone, somewhere, is guilty of double standards (or everyone, everywhere?)
@AOG
//
(jim360)/// "They" might say that success at Trivial Pursuit is all about how well you know your "history according to white people"... ///
Why bring colour into it, if I had done the same you would have got the 'racist' card out.
//
Not if you had done the colour flip trick fully and mentioned "Trivial Pursuit: Afrocentric version", which had questions based solely on African, Afro-Caribbean, North American, South American and European history.
It is highly unlikely that you would do that, of course (indeed, we'd suspect your AB account to have been hijacked, if you changed that rapidly).
Jim's point was that the authors of Trivial Pursuit were, as evidenced by the question sets, steeped in the US, or UK, or generically white European historical tradition. After all, what would be the point of including a question about a 14th century African monarch if practically everyone had never heard of them?
//
(jim360)/// "They" might say that success at Trivial Pursuit is all about how well you know your "history according to white people"... ///
Why bring colour into it, if I had done the same you would have got the 'racist' card out.
//
Not if you had done the colour flip trick fully and mentioned "Trivial Pursuit: Afrocentric version", which had questions based solely on African, Afro-Caribbean, North American, South American and European history.
It is highly unlikely that you would do that, of course (indeed, we'd suspect your AB account to have been hijacked, if you changed that rapidly).
Jim's point was that the authors of Trivial Pursuit were, as evidenced by the question sets, steeped in the US, or UK, or generically white European historical tradition. After all, what would be the point of including a question about a 14th century African monarch if practically everyone had never heard of them?
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