Crosswords1 min ago
Irrational distrust of Catholicsm
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I have noticed that when I see a highly ornate Catholic church interior, complete with gold and statues of saints and madonnas and the like I feel an instinctive distrust and words like "superstition" spring to mind.
As a long standing atheist this seems completely irrational -there's no reason to see it as more superstitious than a whitewashed puritan church - I don't get the same feelings looking at a Hindu shrine.
Any other atheists feel the same? Do you think of all religions as equally suspect or do you have a league table?
Is this the subtle effect of a centuries old national culture of distrust of Catholics? If so how is it transmitted when we scarely ever go to church?
As a long standing atheist this seems completely irrational -there's no reason to see it as more superstitious than a whitewashed puritan church - I don't get the same feelings looking at a Hindu shrine.
Any other atheists feel the same? Do you think of all religions as equally suspect or do you have a league table?
Is this the subtle effect of a centuries old national culture of distrust of Catholics? If so how is it transmitted when we scarely ever go to church?
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The title of the thread should have been "Irrational Distrust of Religious Faiths"
It is a natural distrust, sometimes fear, we have have of each others faiths and sects when we dont understand them, their practices, history and values. And this can manifest itself in discomfort when we visit their places of worship.
It is a natural distrust, sometimes fear, we have have of each others faiths and sects when we dont understand them, their practices, history and values. And this can manifest itself in discomfort when we visit their places of worship.
DTcroswordfan, that is nonsense. I am not afraid of any religion but am bemused at why people believe in such weird things.
As for not knowing about, or understanding, their practices and so on, I know far more about (for example) Christianity than most Christians do who rely on received dogma rather than examining the basis and origins of their faith.
I feel no discomfort in religious places. Some of them are magnificent as works of art. Only the Vatican Basilica was distasteful to me and produced disdain rather than discomfort.
As for not knowing about, or understanding, their practices and so on, I know far more about (for example) Christianity than most Christians do who rely on received dogma rather than examining the basis and origins of their faith.
I feel no discomfort in religious places. Some of them are magnificent as works of art. Only the Vatican Basilica was distasteful to me and produced disdain rather than discomfort.
I do have an instinctive distrust of Catholic churches. I don't think it stems from the past, but is more likely to be as a result of the fact that the ornate interiors of many Catholic churches with their golden statues, valuable paintings and priceless treasures display values that are completely contrary to everything we're taught Christianity should be. Superstition does spring to mind whenever I enter a church (or a mosque or synagogue) oddly enough more so than when I enter a Buddhist temple for example - but I think that's because I feel Buddhism is genuine in its philosophy, so I suppose I do have a league table in a way. As for how the feeling of superstition is transmitted, I assume in my case it's an unavoidable and undeniable result of my studies.
I pretty much agree with Chakka on his impression of St Peter's in Rome, except I find it rather more than faintly disgusting - I find it vulgar and obscene. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem has a similar effect on me. How it saddens me to watch the faithful shedding futile tears over statues and fake artifacts and worthless pieces of stone!!
Incidentally, also like Chakka, I have no fear of any religion.
I pretty much agree with Chakka on his impression of St Peter's in Rome, except I find it rather more than faintly disgusting - I find it vulgar and obscene. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem has a similar effect on me. How it saddens me to watch the faithful shedding futile tears over statues and fake artifacts and worthless pieces of stone!!
Incidentally, also like Chakka, I have no fear of any religion.
I was brought up as a very High Church Anglican, and have visited many Anglican churches far more highly decorated than Roman ones. Yet strangely enough I empathise with OP; on the few occasions when I entered an RC church I felt uncomfortable. I can only explain by the fact that after 300 years of proscription, when the RC church was allowed to re-establish itself in Britain, it came with all the foreign influences (titles like Monsignor and skull caps). It feels strangely un-English (or un-British). I have had heard it said on more than one occasion by very learned, devout people, that Roman Catholicism is no fit religion for an Englishman. Old-fashioned, I know, but some ideas are ingrained with the passage of time.
I know both the Alhambra and St Sophia's fairly well and admire the architecture of both, but that has no bearing on the contents of some Roman Catholic churches.
Jake, how do you think this idea of suspicion is transmitted? I might be completely wrong, but I get the impression that you are recently somehow leaning towards the spiritual. Are you?
Jake, how do you think this idea of suspicion is transmitted? I might be completely wrong, but I get the impression that you are recently somehow leaning towards the spiritual. Are you?
ah chakka, I presume that you are like me and that you have had some background/education in comparative religion.....or, like me, you have spent time in other religions - in my case visiting Muslim countries for work or married to a Jewish girl.......
Most of us dont have those experiences and hence the fears...........for example, even in my 'sect,' (Primitive) Methodism, there has been an inherent distrust in the family of marrying Catholics - we are not talking my aunt (denied blessing by her lay-preacher dad) but my generation where my uncle got seriopusly twitched by one of his sons marrying a Catholic. Illogical, yes I agree; Irrational, absolutely; but what are the drivers to this - and, in my experience, it is a lack of knowledge and exposure. For example how many Christians can name the Muslim pillars of wisdom and how many Muslims can reason the importance of the Apostolic Creed.
Most of us dont have those experiences and hence the fears...........for example, even in my 'sect,' (Primitive) Methodism, there has been an inherent distrust in the family of marrying Catholics - we are not talking my aunt (denied blessing by her lay-preacher dad) but my generation where my uncle got seriopusly twitched by one of his sons marrying a Catholic. Illogical, yes I agree; Irrational, absolutely; but what are the drivers to this - and, in my experience, it is a lack of knowledge and exposure. For example how many Christians can name the Muslim pillars of wisdom and how many Muslims can reason the importance of the Apostolic Creed.
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My family, myself included were brought up as Salvationists. I played in the Salvation Army band as did my siblings, my Sister is currently band leader. My Grandfather also played in the band at the funeral of William Booth (founder of the Salvation Army) While I am an atheist I have immense respect for the salvation army.
The Officer of our local branch of the Salvation army lived in a very small 2 up 2 down terraced house, the Salvation Army Hall was made from corrugated iron and painted oxide red to preserve it.
Their money was and is still used for the purpose intended, to help others.
The Officer of our local branch of the Salvation army lived in a very small 2 up 2 down terraced house, the Salvation Army Hall was made from corrugated iron and painted oxide red to preserve it.
Their money was and is still used for the purpose intended, to help others.
As an aetheist married to a Catholic, I attend mass every Sunday.
I feel that the fundamental premise of Christianity is flawed, but i appreciate the social cohesion which it creates, and i think that is more evident in the Catholic church, maybe as a result of the persecution its practitioners have received.
I do believe that any building or area that engenders an 'atmosphere' absorbs it - be that a theatre, a church, or any place where a large number of people have gathered to experience a shared belief of what ever kind.
My wife recently visited the Hiroshima memorial, and confirmed that it was not necessary to understand any of the inscriptions, the atmosphere was there for all to feel unbidden.
I felt a similar degree of empathy when we visited the site of the Aberfan school disater - simply walking around caused silent tears to come.
As for other relgions - i believe the Western powers' unwillingness / inability to accept the role of faith in the Muslim wor;d is a large reason for the conflicts they (the West) have created.
For Christians, faith is part of their lives, for Muslims, faith IS their lives, woven into the fabric of their daily existance, hence their willingness to fight and die to protect it.
In conclusion, i find the oppulance of the Catholic church to be an obscenity, but only a part of the entire edifice of Catholicism which turns willfully blind eyes to realities which do not suit its archaic doctrines, and causes suffering and death ona biblical scale as a result.
My aetheisim is absence of faith, rather than fervent disbelief - i am open to pursuasion, especially if, on dying, i find that the Christians, or indeed any faith, were correct, at which point i will become an instant convert with a fulsome apology forming on the lips of my departed soul - because I have one after all.
I feel that the fundamental premise of Christianity is flawed, but i appreciate the social cohesion which it creates, and i think that is more evident in the Catholic church, maybe as a result of the persecution its practitioners have received.
I do believe that any building or area that engenders an 'atmosphere' absorbs it - be that a theatre, a church, or any place where a large number of people have gathered to experience a shared belief of what ever kind.
My wife recently visited the Hiroshima memorial, and confirmed that it was not necessary to understand any of the inscriptions, the atmosphere was there for all to feel unbidden.
I felt a similar degree of empathy when we visited the site of the Aberfan school disater - simply walking around caused silent tears to come.
As for other relgions - i believe the Western powers' unwillingness / inability to accept the role of faith in the Muslim wor;d is a large reason for the conflicts they (the West) have created.
For Christians, faith is part of their lives, for Muslims, faith IS their lives, woven into the fabric of their daily existance, hence their willingness to fight and die to protect it.
In conclusion, i find the oppulance of the Catholic church to be an obscenity, but only a part of the entire edifice of Catholicism which turns willfully blind eyes to realities which do not suit its archaic doctrines, and causes suffering and death ona biblical scale as a result.
My aetheisim is absence of faith, rather than fervent disbelief - i am open to pursuasion, especially if, on dying, i find that the Christians, or indeed any faith, were correct, at which point i will become an instant convert with a fulsome apology forming on the lips of my departed soul - because I have one after all.
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