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Richard Dawkins - Faith School Menace?
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Did anyone else see this on Wednesday night? One in three of our schools are now faith schools funded by the tax payer, but in the area of religious education not only do some of them teach the subject for up to four times longer each week than other schools, they are left to do their own thing and have their own regulators. Additionally, the Islamic school taught creationism and a version of evolution but left the students to make up their own minds on which was true. Needless to say when asked all, without exception, said they believed the Koran‘s version - and alarmingly their Science teacher said the same. Can you imagine the ‘make your own mind up' scenario being applied to any other subject - and that being acceptable to any school that cares about the standard of education it offers, or more particularly to a government that sets a national curriculum? Religion demands that we close our eyes to its failings - and because it demands it, we do it regardless of the effect it has on future generations.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
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I have no problem with the teaching of RE in schools - even secular schools. It teaches *about* faith rather than faith itself and for me, at least, was a place where I could question everything I was told. Not sure my eventual 'coming-out' as an atheist was quite what my RE teacher had in mind, but I'm sure she'd be quite accepting of it.
There is a place for teaching tolerence and fairness, and I believe RE lessons could be the place for it. Perhaps if the name of the subject were changed then it would be a little more acceptable.
There is a place for teaching tolerence and fairness, and I believe RE lessons could be the place for it. Perhaps if the name of the subject were changed then it would be a little more acceptable.
I don't know Naomi, It is funded very very well by the church and a lot of parents from different counties want their children to join this school. It may not affect the teaching standards but the people with big money if they want to save their school without religion will be looking for cut-backs if the church is no longer involved.
They've already cut the buses to the school.
They've already cut the buses to the school.
I thought the show was a little uninteresting to tell the truth.
There were only two things that really interested me. First, Dawkins requested interviews with pupils and staff at a Catholic, Jewish and Islamic school. Both the Catholic and Jewish schools refused while one Islamic school in Leicester agreed. I was rather surprised that any of them would be willing to entertain this country's most famous and vocal atheist, so well done them. However, my congratulations were very short lived when Dawkins re-directed this pupil's question to the school's 'science' teacher, “If humans evolved from apes, why are apes still here?”
The teacher answered, “We teach [our students] that humans evolved from apes and through Natural Selection, we became human.”
Dawkins retorted, “But the question is, why are there still apes?”
At which point, the 'science' teacher said, “Hmmm...” and then fell silent and just smiled that kind of smile that says, 'I've just been caught out by someone who knows more than I do...'
Dawlins then said, “We're not evolved from apes... chimps, apes, and humans have evolved from a shared ancestor that lived about 6 million years ago who was neither a human nor a chimp nor an ape.”
The 'science' teacher quite obviously did not understand Darwinism. I can understand this as it's quite a new theory – it first being published in 1859 - and not many people have had the chance to study it in any great detail... particularly those people who are required to teach it...
There were only two things that really interested me. First, Dawkins requested interviews with pupils and staff at a Catholic, Jewish and Islamic school. Both the Catholic and Jewish schools refused while one Islamic school in Leicester agreed. I was rather surprised that any of them would be willing to entertain this country's most famous and vocal atheist, so well done them. However, my congratulations were very short lived when Dawkins re-directed this pupil's question to the school's 'science' teacher, “If humans evolved from apes, why are apes still here?”
The teacher answered, “We teach [our students] that humans evolved from apes and through Natural Selection, we became human.”
Dawkins retorted, “But the question is, why are there still apes?”
At which point, the 'science' teacher said, “Hmmm...” and then fell silent and just smiled that kind of smile that says, 'I've just been caught out by someone who knows more than I do...'
Dawlins then said, “We're not evolved from apes... chimps, apes, and humans have evolved from a shared ancestor that lived about 6 million years ago who was neither a human nor a chimp nor an ape.”
The 'science' teacher quite obviously did not understand Darwinism. I can understand this as it's quite a new theory – it first being published in 1859 - and not many people have had the chance to study it in any great detail... particularly those people who are required to teach it...
I didn't watch this, and hadn't realised that a Leicester school had been involved. If it's the one I think it is (and there is only one main Islamic secondary in Leicester), then it seems to be bucking the stereotype and showing itsself as an open, forward-thinking school. Certainly when it comes to my department (libraries), there's never a problem getting them to engage with us on reading and book projects and, when they've turned up to events, I've been impressed by just how open and grounded a bunch of teenagers they are.
Interestingly enough, they have also have a fair smattering of non-Muslim pupils whose parents, presumably, have been drawn there because of its academic and behavioural standards - which are high!
Interestingly enough, they have also have a fair smattering of non-Muslim pupils whose parents, presumably, have been drawn there because of its academic and behavioural standards - which are high!
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Nadis, so we're talking about allowing a third of our children to be indoctrinated with medieval ideology and your job (which in all likelihood is under no threat whatsoever) is paramount in your mind? All for the greater good eh? That figures.
Saxyjag, I find that quite sad really. Isn't it a pity they can't go one step further and bring the science they teach into the 21st century?
Saxyjag, I find that quite sad really. Isn't it a pity they can't go one step further and bring the science they teach into the 21st century?
I am not being selfish Naomi, some of my nieces (not my sisters decision) are Catholic and they said that religion in school taught them nothing really except how silly it all seemed and I agreed with them. I feel sorry for those children who seemingly have no choice and their families indoctrinate their young influenceable minds.
Maybe teach them that there are different religions in the world and what they are about then if they are interested at all in later years then so be it.
I was merely responding to your answer when you said, I don't think you will lose your job, which is also important to me and very worrying if I were to lose it. So you then make like I don't care about what happens to our youngsters in the future.
I wasn't putting emphasis on my job but everyones who works there and the many clubs and associations that visit including handicapped children who love their time at the school. I feel sorry for them aswell if they were to lose out of their activities.
I don't think religion or especially the indoctrination of children by parents or brainwashed by schools either is really helping anyone.
Maybe teach them that there are different religions in the world and what they are about then if they are interested at all in later years then so be it.
I was merely responding to your answer when you said, I don't think you will lose your job, which is also important to me and very worrying if I were to lose it. So you then make like I don't care about what happens to our youngsters in the future.
I wasn't putting emphasis on my job but everyones who works there and the many clubs and associations that visit including handicapped children who love their time at the school. I feel sorry for them aswell if they were to lose out of their activities.
I don't think religion or especially the indoctrination of children by parents or brainwashed by schools either is really helping anyone.
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Okay Naomi. I'm sorry. I read back what I had written and yes it did sound a little like my job is all I was talking about.
My involvement in the subject at hand is obviously not concentrated enough.
No I cannot imagine a 'make up your own mind' scenario being applied to any subject with regards to a decent level of education.
We tell children not to lie but adults do it all the time to children and call it the truth.
My involvement in the subject at hand is obviously not concentrated enough.
No I cannot imagine a 'make up your own mind' scenario being applied to any subject with regards to a decent level of education.
We tell children not to lie but adults do it all the time to children and call it the truth.
Keyplus -
Let's have a look at your previous statement, “... You are worried about faith schools making children’s mind up. And I read your posts day in day out (almost 24 hours you post) and that gives me idea that how you are letting your children make their minds up.”
In a nutshell, you're accusing Naomi of negligence towards her children. Nice... She then responds politely and briefly and calls into question your beliefs.
You then send this, “... But in fact you have avoided again what I said using your outdated tactics that (guess what)? we know.”
What on earth are you talking about Keyplus? How has Naomi avoided you? You haven't made a point other than to call her an unfit mother! What makes you think that you have the right to attack someone in this way? By all means, attack someone's argument but having a go at someone in such a personal and unfounded way just makes you look pathetic and weak – both morally and intellectually.
Insulting people and then posting what can only be described as 'gibberish' does not make your views any more valid.
Let's have a look at your previous statement, “... You are worried about faith schools making children’s mind up. And I read your posts day in day out (almost 24 hours you post) and that gives me idea that how you are letting your children make their minds up.”
In a nutshell, you're accusing Naomi of negligence towards her children. Nice... She then responds politely and briefly and calls into question your beliefs.
You then send this, “... But in fact you have avoided again what I said using your outdated tactics that (guess what)? we know.”
What on earth are you talking about Keyplus? How has Naomi avoided you? You haven't made a point other than to call her an unfit mother! What makes you think that you have the right to attack someone in this way? By all means, attack someone's argument but having a go at someone in such a personal and unfounded way just makes you look pathetic and weak – both morally and intellectually.
Insulting people and then posting what can only be described as 'gibberish' does not make your views any more valid.
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