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Is there any point debating religion, really?
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I've posted and read a lot of posts relating to the topic of religion, all the for's and all the agins, and I put it to you is there any point debating it? I have my view and you have yours and the chance of either of us changing each others view is pretty slim, so let us all agree to disagree and talk of other things. That being said, I'm right and you're wrong(joking). Any thoughts?
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Religion is the perceived alternative to and arch enemy of reason, reason being the means by which we as rational beings sustain and promote our existence on this Earth.
For the same reason I promote science in as much as it is devoted to the benefits it can provide to those with the capacity to do science, human beings, as well as its parent and guardian, philosophy, I abhor religion. Religion is to philosophy as the twisted and perverse application of technology for the destruction of humanity is to rationally guided and properly applied science.
Religion and faith are not a substitute for reason but attempts to separate humanity from its hard won, highly evolved means of existence by perverting and subverting the rational process that has evolved through years of developing and exploring the foundations and proper applications of knowledge that is the discipline of philosophy.
The success religion has had in achieving its purpose is evident in the lack of a philosophy section in this forum. We should be debating ethics and the objective basis of morality. Instead of learning how to live religion would have us devote our lives to preparing for the grave.
Rather than exploring our potential to achieve greatness we are whacking the Big Lie in the Sky around like an intellectual ping-pong ball. That�s all good. Mental gymnastics in applying logic is good exercise . . . but you did ask what the point is . . .
What is at stake is our survival as a species, the only one of which we have certain knowledge with the ability to debate the point of our own existence and that of the universe.
For the same reason I promote science in as much as it is devoted to the benefits it can provide to those with the capacity to do science, human beings, as well as its parent and guardian, philosophy, I abhor religion. Religion is to philosophy as the twisted and perverse application of technology for the destruction of humanity is to rationally guided and properly applied science.
Religion and faith are not a substitute for reason but attempts to separate humanity from its hard won, highly evolved means of existence by perverting and subverting the rational process that has evolved through years of developing and exploring the foundations and proper applications of knowledge that is the discipline of philosophy.
The success religion has had in achieving its purpose is evident in the lack of a philosophy section in this forum. We should be debating ethics and the objective basis of morality. Instead of learning how to live religion would have us devote our lives to preparing for the grave.
Rather than exploring our potential to achieve greatness we are whacking the Big Lie in the Sky around like an intellectual ping-pong ball. That�s all good. Mental gymnastics in applying logic is good exercise . . . but you did ask what the point is . . .
What is at stake is our survival as a species, the only one of which we have certain knowledge with the ability to debate the point of our own existence and that of the universe.
Styley, you are so right. Threre really is no point whatsoever is all the endless arguments that go on in this section. I am not sure how many times I have read the same arguments rehashed time and time again - and not once has anybody gone any distance towards agreeing with the person they are arguing with.
People will always use this section to debate the unanswerable but quite how there is enjoyment in this when the opinions of those people are so intractable will remain a mystery to me.
People will always use this section to debate the unanswerable but quite how there is enjoyment in this when the opinions of those people are so intractable will remain a mystery to me.
Yes, but no matter how many facts you put to the believers they have an uncanny knack of avoiding the question in hand. I think all the atheists have pretty much proved their points many many times and as I said you are not going to change people's views, I feel. I find it a frustration of life that we athiests are made to feel as if we should hide our beliefs(at least where I'm from) even though I feel it is obvious that the points we have are extremely valid. And by the by, I'm not saying we shouldn't debate it, as it is thought provoking, and enjoyable. My point was simply that no matter how many times you express your opinion, no matter how many facts you relay, all you will be doing is affirming like minded thinkers beliefs and be ignored by non like minded thinkers.
I think the debates here serve to help people realise that religion is not benign but a very real threat to our societies. The intelligent people of the world need to be informed about how religion lies at the root of what is wrong in our world and rea;ise they need to stand up against this bigotry.
Getting the believers to demononstrate the extent of their stupid beliefs helps others to realise just how dangerous they really can be.
Take for example the fact that the followers of Abraham's evil war mongering deity (Yhw, God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever) avidly await the coming of Armageddon when their faith will prevail and all others will die. This is an incredibly sick philosophy yet hundred of millions of people across the globe are working and praying for it to come.
Meanwhile they have insist on the right to practice their beliefs and demand we respect them.
Religion does not deserve our respect and this forum provides a rare opportunity to express this point of view.
Getting the believers to demononstrate the extent of their stupid beliefs helps others to realise just how dangerous they really can be.
Take for example the fact that the followers of Abraham's evil war mongering deity (Yhw, God, Allah, Jehovah or whatever) avidly await the coming of Armageddon when their faith will prevail and all others will die. This is an incredibly sick philosophy yet hundred of millions of people across the globe are working and praying for it to come.
Meanwhile they have insist on the right to practice their beliefs and demand we respect them.
Religion does not deserve our respect and this forum provides a rare opportunity to express this point of view.
Catron, there seems little point to me in all the nonsense that goes on in Chatterbank, which is why I don't go there. I don't like it, so I don't read it. People are free to discuss whatever they want to discuss - and the rest of us are free either to join in, or to ignore it. Why we appear to gain enjoyment from it may be a mystery to you, but I can assure you we do - otherwise we wouldn't be here. As Styley says, each to his own.
What would be the point of AB R&S or any other topic for that matter. We all have opinions about things. Some topics more than others. I don't often venture to R&S as I don't believe in any religion and have nothing to say really. In a certain way I do agree with what you are saying, however, if you don't like debating religion like myself, then don't venture forth.
I have stated my opinion in response to styley's question, naomi24. Why you did you have to say anything? You really cannot speak for anybody but yourself - but if you enjoy it, fine - why do you always think I am trying to stop you? If anything, this time you are suggesting it is I who should stop expressing my opinion - sorry but I will say what I want when I want and if you do not like it, tough!
Oh and I love reading the things that are said here -so many of them are so funny that I just have to laugh!
Oh and I love reading the things that are said here -so many of them are so funny that I just have to laugh!
Let us have a laugh with a few mates, like so. This is what its all about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fPNvEug720
Looking at the way people just argue for the sake of argument, it seems a good idea not to debate about Religion. But then If all the Firemen will go on strike who will save people from Fire. If Police would not care about only criminals would not listen to them then what would happen to the victims, If someone will turn all the light off then who would show you the light.
On a good note, of course a Muslim would say Islam is right, Christianity has its own points, Atheists would say what is the point in talking about which you can not see and so on. Although we may not be able to prove our point for one reason or another but at least we tried.
On a good note, of course a Muslim would say Islam is right, Christianity has its own points, Atheists would say what is the point in talking about which you can not see and so on. Although we may not be able to prove our point for one reason or another but at least we tried.
I think even when you know you can not persuade someone to change thier viewpoint there remains something very seductive about debating religion, politics, the meaning of life etc - Throughout our history we have examples of the oral and written evidence of the human need to proselytize. It is almost irresistiable to not to just try once more to show the other why they should agree and see reason!
If you are passionate about a subject such as having a faith or having had a seen the light experince on the road to Atheism, such power feelings are hard to curb, especially if you have a tendency to be opinionated and outspoken, ( I suspect those of us who use AB to spout our nonsense are pretty opinionated in all types of social interaction). Also if you belive in something it should be a strong enough belief to sustain the rigour of challenge and inspection.
Whilst I don't venture into religion that frequently having little to contribute, those who do, must find the interchanges stimulating and a means to reinforce and strengthen their own viewpoint. Some of them such as Waldo McFroog provide excellent supporting material which demonstrates a real in depth knowledge of the subject which to the audience makes interesting reading. I think the intellectual challenge of a debate is another form of exercising the grey matter.
If you are passionate about a subject such as having a faith or having had a seen the light experince on the road to Atheism, such power feelings are hard to curb, especially if you have a tendency to be opinionated and outspoken, ( I suspect those of us who use AB to spout our nonsense are pretty opinionated in all types of social interaction). Also if you belive in something it should be a strong enough belief to sustain the rigour of challenge and inspection.
Whilst I don't venture into religion that frequently having little to contribute, those who do, must find the interchanges stimulating and a means to reinforce and strengthen their own viewpoint. Some of them such as Waldo McFroog provide excellent supporting material which demonstrates a real in depth knowledge of the subject which to the audience makes interesting reading. I think the intellectual challenge of a debate is another form of exercising the grey matter.
Naomi24, I already knew you enjoyed the 'debates' in this section. Your previous post only reiterated that you did - Why we appear to gain enjoyment from it may be a mystery to you, but I can assure you we do.
Can you not see that I would find no enjoyment in what I see as a continual bashing of ones head against a wall, a kind of 'spiritual masochism'? It is all very well you explaining the reasons as to WHY you find this section to your liking; I simply do not understand them and so they will always be a mystery to me. It is like you not understanding those who have a deep and real faith in Christianity despite you giving a million reasons why they should not have that faith - their reasons for having faith are a mystery to you as you just don't 'get it'.
Can you not see that I would find no enjoyment in what I see as a continual bashing of ones head against a wall, a kind of 'spiritual masochism'? It is all very well you explaining the reasons as to WHY you find this section to your liking; I simply do not understand them and so they will always be a mystery to me. It is like you not understanding those who have a deep and real faith in Christianity despite you giving a million reasons why they should not have that faith - their reasons for having faith are a mystery to you as you just don't 'get it'.
I suppose another thing I've noticed is that not many people who are religious make any comments, usually its just non believers. I don't know if that is because they don't like to debate their beliefs or that they don't like to think about their beliefs in any way, in case they get scared about what they would perhaps realise at the end of that particular path.
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