Mind Changed!

[Whickerman]

I've just been on one of my fave sites, and there's a movie clip. The posting raves on about the evils of religion. I'm afraid I watched it, and i've actually had my mind changed about something, and had one of my core beliefs reinforced.

I won't post the link to the video, as it's very very disturbing. It shows a girl being dragged from a house and stoned to death. She was 14. The crowd are loving it.

Therefore, I can say that my belief that any form of fundamentalism is surely wrong, and ungod-like. That's the one that's been reinforced. I actually hate to say this, but after all of the bombings, after all of the killings, its taken this for me to admit that Islam can't be right.

I'm logging off now. I really feel depressed.

[wizard69]

Whicker...I know exactly how you feel. I have seen a few islamic stonings on the net and my head has been done in for ages after viewing them.
christianity once ruled over the horrors of the dark ages...
now I think that islam is the new ruler of the 21st century equivelant...
but...cant offend the muslims now can we?

[RATTER15]

These are quotes from the Koran:

This is what you must do to be a true Muslim


Q 2:190-3

Fight for the sake of God those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. God does not love the aggressors.

Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage.


Q 9:5

When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.


"Idolaters" are anybody that believes in any god or Idol, because that goes against the Koran, THAT INCLUDES CHRISTIANS!!!









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[RATTER15]

oooops, sorry didn't realise I pasted all that stuff as well!!!

It should have ended at: THAT INCLUDES CHRISTIANS

[naomi24]

Hello chaps, the very thought of it makes my blood run cold. You know it happens, but why watch this absolute madness?

[Whickerman]

I know, i usually avoid this stuff like the plague.

But my daughter is the same age. I couldn't believe my eyes, and I felt I owed it to the child murdered on the video to watch and in some way I felt that maybe, just maybe, she's somewhere in the cosmos and might take comfort from my anguish at her pain.

Daft I know.

[naomi24]

No, Whicker, not daft at all. I can understand that.

What was this girl's crime. Do you know?

[tompaine]

Sometimes it's difficult to keep faith in what you feel is right but despite the provocation don't condem the many for the actions of the few. Evil is not peculiar to islam or religion in general. These places are theocracies and they are not organised through the will of the people but rather through terror and hatred much like nazi germany. Regardless of whether you have faith or look to reason support secular democracy because democracy is tolerance.

[Whickerman]

I've no idea what her 'crime' was, but there's nothing that will convince me that any crime a 14 year old girl can commit can warrant a death like that. There's no argument that this was simply a theocracy at work either - there were crowds jostling to get a better look as they smashed rocks into her head (please don't think that she was standing somewhere with people throwing stones - they lay her on the ground and smashed her skull - slowly). They'd also stripped her of her dignity and clothing. People were laughing and recording it on their mobile phones. I've thought about it, and there's a policeman in the shot. This was Gaza.( I thought sharia law also outlawed the taking of images?)

[mibn2cweus]

Whether state sponsored or religiously inspired such behavior is the inevitable consequence of people who have relinquished self-respect and individual responsibility in exchange for a mutual hatred of humanity and reason.

"Ungod-like" hell. Surely you haven't equated those mindless monsters that instigated, carried out and/or celebrated this kind of behavior for rational human beings?

We should all take heed and carefully consider the legitimacy and vulnerability of our beliefs lest we find the actions they justify put our own humanity under scrutiny and in question.

[naomi24]

Whicker, obviously nothing warrants that, but I just wondered how petty her so called 'crime' might have been. Maybe she made the mistake of looking at a boy. How can we ever begin to understand this mentality? Quite simply we can't.

[reachesme]

The tumble weed passes by gently whilst we wait for condemnation of a Islamic act by a Muslim.

[jake-the-peg]

You know it's not that long ago that Christians were burning old women alive for being witches or even torturing each other for believing the wrong sort of Christianity.



�With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil � but for good people to do evil � that takes religion.� Stephen Weinberg

[wizard69]

I take it Mani, that you also denounce the God of the Old Testament as been inhumane then?
How can you say that stoning is an appalling and inhumane practice when the bible clearly endorses it and the God of the bble even condems a man to stoning for the 'crime' of collecting sticks (num15; 32-35).

[wizard69]

"the passage you refer to goes back to a time when stoning was standard practice"
And it was standard practice because (if you believe it) God ordered it. If you dont believe God ordered it then you are denying a chunk of a book which you claim God inspired.
I am genuinely confused here Mani. If you believe that stoning is a barbaric practice then you are at odds with God who is the (supposed) supreme moral being who approved of the practice.
And why cant I judge things that happened 2000 years ago? you do. You will quote the ten commandments or various laws regarding homosexuality as been morraly right and yet deny the bits that you dont like (stoning) as been nothing more than primitive and barbaric practices.
Surely, if you are going to believe the bible then you have to accept all of it as been inspired of God (2 Tim: 3;16)
and not just take the bits that agree with your 21st century view of life.

[naomi24]

Why do you find the statements here regarding Islam to be shocking, Mani? They only reflect what's happening in the world and what people are seeing. If these things weren't happening, people wouldn't be appalled.

[wizard69]

Mani...why dont you think that the old testament should be taken literally when you (presumably) take the new testament literally?
Can you tell me what parts you DONT take literally and why?
I am genuinly perplexed as to how you can claim to believe in a book and yet not believe in parts of it at the same time.


Iam not making any attacks on you or your beliefs here, just trying to understand where you are coming from.

[naomi24]

Are you going to answer me Mani?