Battle with the Pharoah

[naomi24]

Why did god need to visit the ten plagues on the Egyptians in order to force the Pharoah to set the Israelites free from slavery? If he is all powerful and almighty, couldn't he have just freed them instantly without going to all that trouble?

Also, when he killed all the first born with the final plague, why did the Israelites have to sacrifice a lamb and mark their doors with its blood so that the Angel of Death would pass them by? Didn't god know where the Israelites lived?

[wizard69]

We ain't talking about agency workers for goodness sakes.
We are talking about OWNING another human being like a piece of property

[Theland]

Yeah! Agency workers.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Quite. I'm reasonably sure there's a big difference between being on a low wage but free to change your employment at will, and being condemned to spend your entire life in servitude without possibility of bettering your position in life as someone else's legal property.

Some consistancy would be nice, that's all. Either slavery is bad, or it's not.

[Theland]

Well let me see now.
Yep! Slavery is bad. Final answer.

[wizard69]

"Yeah. Agency workers"
What's that about? some kind of answer?

[WaldoMcFroog]

So slavery is bad, yet the OT God is quite clear that he doesn't agree, and accords a lesser value to slaves than free people.

[wizard69]

slavery is bad eh?
finally got an answer. now you are left with the dilema that the bible not only condon's it but in fact orders it

[Theland]

God affords a lesser value to those who obstructed His chosen people as they built a nation.

[wizard69]

Funny..I could have sworn that the bible says that god is no respector of people

[Theland]

My father was a slave - for three and a half years, building the Burma railway. Spoils of war the Japanese would have called it I presume.
He didn't enjoy it obviously. Should the Israelites have enjoyed their time building for Pharoah?

[wizard69]

And should the slaves of the israelites enjoyed their time been in servitude to them?

[Theland]

He is no respecter of persons. Most of His dealings with us are done corporately, although we can have a personal relationship with Him.

[wizard69]

Slavery is WRONG. You said so.So what makes it ok for THEM to own slaves

[Theland]

I can't re-write history, and I refuse to make so called moral judgements about God.

[wizard69]

You arnt been asked to judge god (or to rewrite history) You are been asked to justify the israelites use of slaves when you said that slavery was wrong

[Theland]

Yes, slavery is wrong.
Israel took slaves in battle, and were themselves later enslaved, as that was the prevailing custom at the time. Is this getting us anywhere?

[wizard69]

I doubt it. You say that the egyptions were wrong to enslave the israelites so god punished them and yet it was ok for the israelites to have slaves because that was the custom.
With this kind of double standards and wooly thinking it is impossable to have a reasoned debate so I will bid you goodnight.

[naomi24]

Hi chaps, I've hosted a great dinner tonight, my lovely guests have now departed and it's gone 1.30am, but since copious amounts of red wine have taken their toll, I am not exactly au fait with what's going on here. However, the point of the question is why would an almighty, all powerful god have needed to rely firstly upon envoys, and secondly upon the cruelest of methods to free the slaves? Why? It makes absolutely no sense at all. In my opinion this being was neither almighty nor all powerful, - he couldn't have been - and if he needed to demonstrate his greatness, then at the very least he was guilty of at least one 'sin' - that of pride. This god was not a supernatural being, but simply someone from a more advanced civilisation who possessed technology unknown and not understood by the people in that area of the world of that time. Unfortunately though, he was not that advanced mentally, because he still got a kick from the adulation of people who knew no better, and from blowing his own trumpet. What an arrogrant, sick creature he was!

[Theland]

God demonstrates His greatness, because He is great, and He is a jealous God. We should beware of that fact and keep it in mind.
God refuses to share His glory and worship with anybody else or anything else, and He will see to it that His will is carried out.
He will not tolerate a rebellious people, but He gives us time to repent of our rebellious ways. Thank God for that!

[naomi24]

Theland, good morning. Ok, so let's look at your description of god and assess his personality rationally. He's a show-off, he's selfish, he's jealous, he's a killer, his followers are terrified of incurring his wrath, and he sends anyone who doesn't toe the line to burn in hell for eternity, so he's far from perfect - he has his share of faults. Would you agree?

By your own admission, this is a dangerous, supernatural entity whom we should beware of. Therefore the only reason I can see for you to kowtow to such a creature, is that you're too afraid not to.