Who wrote the Bible?

[luna-tic]

Who wrote the first draft and was the story of Jesus pilfered from other cultures? Also: Did Jesus know from an early age he was supposed to be the son of god and if so why was carpentry his first port of call as a vocation.

[Theland]

The Bible was written by inspiration from the Holy Spirit.

We know what we are told, that at about twelve years old, Jesus amazed the scholars in Jerusalem, with His knowledge of the scriptures, and that He began His ministry, aged about thirty.

Carpentry was probably His first port of call, as it was the business of Joseph, Marys husband.

[luna-tic]

Please excuse my naivety on this subject but if Jesus was the son of god, was Joseph a little suspicious of how and where his kid came from? How did Mary explain that one?

[jake-the-peg]

I think you may be thinking of Mithras.

It is claimed Mithras was Born of a virgin on December 25, he was a teacher with 12 apostles, that he perfomed miracles and rose from the dead after 3 days.

If you google Christianity and Mithras you'll find a host of people claiming that Christianity did and did not rip off it's ideas.

Most of the bible was fixed by St. Jerome in about 400 AD but variations came and went - even now there are some differences in the Eastern Orthadox and Ethiopian churches as to what makes a bible.

To say it was written by inspiration of the holy spirit is a bit like saying "Don't question us! we're right God says so!"

[luna-tic]

Thanks Jake, I seem to recall you helping me before with the Mithras tale. I do wonder sometimes how people of religion can justify their knowledge of god, jesus etc but then I suppose that's why it's a belief. It doesn't necessarily make it true.

[Lighter]

Luna-tic, see Matt 1: 18 - 25 for your Joseph query.

And you're right, just because someone believes something doesn't necessarily make it true.

i.e just because a person believes there is no God, doesn't mean there isn't one.
Just because someone believes in evolution, no matter how improbable, doesn't mean that it happened.

[luna-tic]

Dear Lighter, Thanks for the info.I'll have to get back to you about the Matt:18-25, busy at the mo' but you're absolutely correct with the validity of the belief in something:- It works both ways.

[luna-tic]

Hello again Lighter, I've just read the explanation in Matt 18-25 and I must say that Joseph must of thought his wife was not trustworthy. How did she explain her actions as to the so-called miracle conception. He must of been very forgiving.

[jake-the-peg]

Lighter is absolutely correct in that somebody's belief in anything is untrustworthy.

The key thing is to always ask why they believe that thing.

I think that's probably a good idea in any field - I notice too often on here there are people in all topics very keen to comment without supplying information to support what they say - which is a shame because sometimes it's very good.

Whatever you may think about faith, blind faith is rarely a good idea

[chakka35]

The answer to the first question: 'who wrote the bible' is that we don't know, with one exception. Paul certainly wrote most of the epistles attributed to him, but that's that. All the rest of the bible was written anonymously.
The Jesus story is almost certainly a re-telling of the pagan god-man story which had existed centuries before the supposed time of Jesus. The name of the god-man (Mithras, Dionysus, Osiris, etc) differed from culture to culture but the basic ingredients of the story were the same. The god-man was the son of God who came to eartreh as a redeemer, was born to a human virgin, performed exactly the same miracles as Jesus, rode into the city on a donkey to be welcomed with palm fronds,was executed and rose on the third day etc etc. His death and resurrection were celebrated by a three-day festival at Easter time and by a ritual known as The Lord's Supper where the bread represented his body and the wine his blood. I could go on but I'll pause for now.

[luna-tic]

I really think it is down to the individual not only saying they believe in something but if asked, what is their particular and personal basis for that belief. I have asked a few questions on the subject of religion and received very detailed answers. We can all claim to know the definite reason for the many facets of biblical stories based on books, scriptures or maybe some historical elements but all in all most of it is conjecture and our own beliefs swaying our decision of what we think is correct.
Whether anyone decides to support their thoughts on certain matters is entirely up to them, just as when Jesuit Priests took it upon themselves to change the native peoples of what is now called America to Christianity. The natives didn't need to support their religious ideas to the priests....they just believed, but the Christian followers thought their god had precedence.

[Theland]

Ok Ok guilty as charged! Faith is subjective, for me at least. But I can honestly say that I have experienced prayer answered, and I can see Bible prophecy being fulfilled in the world as we speak!
I knew my mother. I believed in my mother. God is more real to me than her!
Laugh at me, scoff and ridicule, but my God does not leave a trail of evidence for the uncommitted unbeliever - that is not His way. I am an unworthy servant of His, and doing a bad job of trying to explain what I know to be true, but the fact is I know it to be true. How? I vcan't give you forensic evidence, but I am not mad, and I know, subjectively what is revealed to me.
Google Hudson Taylor, the founder of the China Inland Mission to see a life based on faith.

[Lighter]

Hi Luna-tic - I've re-read Matt 1 :18 -25, and can't find any signs that Joseph mistrusted Mary. Its says he was a just man, and not wanting to make a public example of her he hid her away. He wasn't rash or accusing but while thinking upon the situation God revealed to him that Mary carried the Saviour, conceived by the Holy Ghost. (An easy thing for the God Who spoke the universe into existence.)

(You mentioned Jesuit priests regards Christianity. As I mentioned in another thread, Roman Catholicism is very far removed from Biblical Christianity.)

[luna-tic]

Who's laughing? Your faith, whatever it means to you is your own and none of us on here whether devout followers of a religion or humble followers of our own hearts are going to change or want to change your view.
Having said that, If particular people do not wish to go down the same path as others, this does not make them bad, they just don't need a book to fall back on when things are not going to plan or need enlightenment but can often find answers to their questions from other means.

[luna-tic]

Sorry Lighter, As I may of mentioned before: My knowledge of such matters is rather rudimentary but regarding the native peoples of America many moons ago, there knowledge of any beliefs but their own was non-existent. They didn't care whether it was Roman Catholic, Christian or the tooth fairy. A variation on a theme(apart from the tooth fairy).

[Lighter]

jake-the-peg said "The key thing is to always ask why they believe that thing"
and that's a very good question, and maybe one we should all think about regards our beliefs.

As Christians why do we believe what we do. Is our various acts of worship, religious duties, behaviour etc confirmed by Scripture? Is what we believe regards salvation found in the Bible? Or is a lot of it man made?

As a Christian I believe in God. I believe He revealed Himself to me in my heart, through the hearing and reading of His Word. I believed I was a sinner and asked the Lord Jesus Christ into my heart as my Saviour, trusting in His finished work on the cross for my sins.
That may not be a satisfactory answer for some. I can't produce a photograph and say 'here's conclusive evidence of God'.
But like Theland I have seen prayers answered, and help and strength given in times of need. God is very very real to me.

And likewise, why do atheists believe there is no God, or believe in the likes of evolution?
Is it personal convenience, i.e if there is no God then I'm not answerable to Him and can do as I please. Or has 'so called christianity' put you off?
Do you believe in evolution because you honestly think is is a scientific reality, or because it is a mechanism for existence that precludes God?

[Lighter]

Luna-tic - I'm not too sure how the Roman church went about converting native americans. If it's like anything else probably aggressively!
But it's that kind of behaviour that obscures the evangelism of true biblical Christianity, giving it a bad name. The Christianity I believe in is loving and not forceful in it's outreach. If I'm speaking to someone about the things of God it is prayerfully, that God would open their eyes. It would be nonsensical to brow beat people into believing or bash them over the head with your Bible!
And it's done out of love, love for God and love for that person's soul. What does it benefit me if that person believes, couldn't I say 'well they can just go and burn'. But it's because of the dangers of hell that we lovingly share the Gospel.
I mean if every man had a deadly illness and I knew the only cure I would have to try and tell them. It's up to them whether they decide to take it or not, but the onus is still on me to tell them.

Btw, as a side point, your mentioning of the native americans has triggered a memory. I remember hearing of something called the 'Trail of Tears' or something, in the 1800's when large numbers of native americans were forced from their lands and had to trek a great distance to be resettled, many dying on the way. The mentality of this lay in the then recent evolutionary teachings, which classed native americans as being racially inferior to the more fully developed whites.
The Bible however says that all men are of one blood.

[luna-tic]

Thanks for your answers Lighter. I suppose to you and others who follow the Christian faith that my questions are being too judgemental of your beliefs. In no way is this the path I wish to take and my inept questions are only trying to understand.
Sorry,there is more to follow so I'll get back to this later.

[luna-tic]

Lighter,if your still there? Hello once more. Please excuse the long pause in mid-thread.....been decorating....mmm nice.
Anyway as I was saying, Yes you are correct about the "Trail Of Tears". Many natives suffered for the sake of the settlers greed and total misunderstanding of those peoples culture. Regarding the evolutionary theories you spoke of. I do not think that the present conceptions held by many scientists are valid basically because that's all it is, theory. Many people have things happen to them in their lives that maybe they can't explain, myself included but I would not necessarily use the name of God to even try to give it meaning but that doesn't always mean a scientific answer is already waiting in the wings either. I am not asking anyone for anything but accept that those who choose a path of scripture, ceremony or maybe enlightenment find comfort from the Christian, Catholic, Buddhist, Scientology or whatever faith they may need to help.

[Lighter]

Hi Luna-tic - don't worry about the pause between answers. I'm not always on the pc either. I'm not offended by your responses, but welcome any query regards the Christian faith if it's out of genuineness.

Btw, I hope your decorating turned out well. If you're anything like me tomorrow you'll discover that one patch that your paint brush missed !

[luna-tic]

Thankyou very kindly for all your input.
We'll probably cross paths again some time on a similar subject.