Right And Wrong

[Theland]

God is my ulitmate authority on right and wrong, but if you don't believe in God, from where does moral authority originate?

[wizard69]

right

[wizard69]

wheres Theland gone? Has he been raptured?

[noxlumos]

He's probably reading my info on Kaos Magick, and thus my old Mars Bar wrapper, a conker with a face like the Virgin Mary and my 1976 Farrah Fawcett poster will have pinged him to Elysium ( or Tottenham Court Road Tube station whichever comes first) :)

[wizard69]

Ah! that explains it Nox. A Mars a day, helps you work rest and pray.

[wizard69]

Clanad's disapeared as well since been rumbled as a plaigarist. Mmmmm,

[brionon]

If god is your Ultimate Authority on right and wrong and this god ordered the extermination of the Midianites ,then your Authority allows you to murder.

[mibn2cweus]

Whatever we choose to believe is right or wrong, whether by faith or reason (the opposite of faith), it is the consequences of our actions for which we are inescapably responsible and for which we must be held accountable. Ultimately reality is the final arbiter of what is right or wrong since it is within reality that the final results of our actions come to fruition. Accepting responsibility for our actions (and the beliefs which lead to them) is the cornerstone for building a sound moral structure and reason is the means by which that structure must be assembled.

"I am ultimately my own authority on right and wrong, as are we all. I do not wish to abdicate that responsibility to anyone or anything else, not another man, and not your God. I think to do so would be dangerous, as it demeans us all to feel we do not have ultimate authority over the validity of our actions."
noxlumos

That is the declaration of independence that precedes the development of a moral individual.

[zubair]

anova question, if you don't believe in God who the heck do you think made you?

[LazyGun]

Ever heard of the fact of evolution zubair? Or the theory of abiogenesis?

The biggest logical problem of attributing the creation of mankind (and every other thing in the universe come to that) to an omniscient, omnipotent creator who actively responds to prayer and judges all is ....who made God?

[mibn2cweus]

zubair, My mommy and daddy were reluctant to discuss the process by which I was made but I finally figured it out through a process of reason. What the heck, give it a try; it's not something you should learn by accident. When you figure it out remember to tune the lights out and stay under the covers cause you know who will be watching you.

[wizard69]

zubair.....not another born again whalley? Get a life dipstick

[Theland]

Wizard69, Noxlumos, and other "Big Guns" of the ABers fraternity:- I'd be here all day responding to your so very important and relevant points, and I can't do that to your satisfaction.

Midianites? Murder? Mars bars?

It simply makes more sense to me to believe in a Creator God, than the alternative of a "Big Bang" evolution and abiogenesis. These demand more faith than I have at my disposal.

(Nox- sorry, still not got around to reading up on your info for kaos magick - time pressing lately)

[Theland]

Zubair - What DO you believe?

[Theland]

LazyGun - Abiogenesis? This is a theory, nothing more. Wouldn't our bright, thinking scientists just love to prove that inorganic matter could, somehow, become organic? The've tried and failed over and over to prove it. Just think, intelligent designers FAILED to replicate in the laboratory what they claim happened in nature without an intelligent designer.

Doesn't that puzzle you, if you don't believe in God that is.

[Theland]

Wizard69 - You must be feeling under the weather if your last post to Zubair is anything to go by.

Put your barristers gown back on, and treat him to the rigours of your usual line of questioning.

You've had your fun, now get serious again.

[LazyGun]

Theland, you are right that abiogenesis is currently a theory..... but the theoretical science behind it is both interesting and credible.

As for your comments regarding inorganic matter to organic.. think about it, because this is exactly what you believe. According to creationist theory, we all come from clay, do we not? (well ,clay and for the wimmin the odd rib or two). And do you know what? Clay forms a very important role in the transition from inorganic to organic life, according to hypotheses within the area of abiogenesis.

As to the success or otherwise of replicating the conditions, and the event ... no, it doesn't puzzle me at all Theland, because I have a basic understanding of probability etc.
Here is how the theory goes. The chances ( and in abiogenesis, it is all about chance, unlike natural selection and evolution) of life arising spontaneously on earth are extraordinarily slim, perhaps one in a billion or so. That having been said, there are thousands of billions of planets in the Universe, so those odds for life arising in this fashion somewhere in the Universe become much less slim, and we on Earth are (one?)of the lucky recipients. However, to try and recreate that extraordinarily rare event in the Lab is an extremely improbable, which may take many years and several thousand man hours to replicate... and we havent been attempting it that long. So, I am confidentthey will, in time.

You posit a creator God as somehow less improbable than abiogenesis, Theland.... but if, as you claim to believe, there exists an omnipotent, omniscient, interventionist personal god that simultaneously keeps everything in the universe going, as well as atttending all the individual prayers addressed to him, that being would be extraordinarily, supernaturally complex... so who created God?

[wizard69]

Theland...welcome back.Where have you been hiding, ive missed you?

[wizard69]

Theland, zubair is just a dyslexic half wit who deserves to be ridiculed.ive got no intention of having a debate with such a sad case...

[Theland]

Wizard69 - Thank you. Shift work, overtime, family problems, all contributed to keeping me away.

But, I have a confession to make. Every night, before I go to sleep, I pray for all of you intellectual giants, that God will reveal Himself to you. I'm sure He will, in time.

So now I have to put on my armour plating again and get ready to dodge the bullets coming through answerbank!

Oh how I love to talk to you. It makes such a difference to what shallow conversations are predominant in work ... football, ale, sex, and oh yes, more football!

I'm almost scared to ask another question!

[Theland]

I get the feeling that Zubair is the proud owner of a koran.