ChatterBank2 mins ago
Proof Of Heaven?
86 Answers
Not a question, just a link to an article.
You may have heard of this book and this guy - Eben Alexander. Wrote a book called "proof of heaven" which became a bestseller in the US and is apparently being made a film. Caught the public imagination because of the scientific authority imparted to the book by the fact that the author was a "famed neurosurgeon", and, according to him, he was by his own diagnosis "brain dead" through acute bacterial meningitis resulting in a coma.
Some of the details and story sounded odd to me at the time, so I was interested in reading the following article in the Esquire. It was the first paragraph of the story in particular I found particularly stomach -churning, him appearing on Fox News immediately following news of the Newtown Massacre, responding confidently to a tearful question from the interviewer about the experience of the kids killed.
Less a Prophet, more a Profit, I think.
http://
You may have heard of this book and this guy - Eben Alexander. Wrote a book called "proof of heaven" which became a bestseller in the US and is apparently being made a film. Caught the public imagination because of the scientific authority imparted to the book by the fact that the author was a "famed neurosurgeon", and, according to him, he was by his own diagnosis "brain dead" through acute bacterial meningitis resulting in a coma.
Some of the details and story sounded odd to me at the time, so I was interested in reading the following article in the Esquire. It was the first paragraph of the story in particular I found particularly stomach -churning, him appearing on Fox News immediately following news of the Newtown Massacre, responding confidently to a tearful question from the interviewer about the experience of the kids killed.
Less a Prophet, more a Profit, I think.
http://
Answers
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08:29 Wed 08th Jan 2014
would you buy a used car from this man
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//Billy Graham is one of the best authorities on the Bible and Christianity//
With his knowledge of the bible, Billy Graham has also become an extremely wealthy man. I wonder if he ever preaches about camels?
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
With his knowledge of the bible, Billy Graham has also become an extremely wealthy man. I wonder if he ever preaches about camels?
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24
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Anecdote and stories are not proof of anything, Gina, and that includes your mothers story, and that of the Australian that you offer.
"Scientist are always trying to prove, Heaven doesn't exist and God is not Real."
No they are not. What you will get is Scientists often refuting the illogical arguments of believers insisting, against all evidence, that Heaven/God does exist. That is an entirely different thing.
" About 30 yrs ago, she under went operation and died on the operating table. By the Grace of God, she returned back to her body. Doctor was in total disbelief and totally shocked she came back to her body. "
Died on the operating table? You mean she was officially pronounced dead? How long after this proclamation of death was it before "she returned"?
I mean if she was pronounced dead, and then she "returned" some hours or weeks later, I can understand the Doctors being shocked, but not otherwise. And anyway just how accurate can we expect this story to be - an anecdote based upon the recollection of events from 30 years ago undoubtedly embellished for dramatic effect - That's not meant as an insult, by the way; just an acknowledgement that all such life events tend to be exaggerated or embellished for dramatic effect over time and retelling?
Your mothers experience, however traumatic, however apparently miraculous, simply does not constitute proof of anything at all. Sorry, but there it is.Nor do her descriptions of Jesus mean anything at all.How are we to know whether it is just simple imaginings on her part? After all, as an avid Christian as you described, it is not totally surprising that she might have dreams and suchlike about god and heaven and jesus is it?
"Scientist are always trying to prove, Heaven doesn't exist and God is not Real."
No they are not. What you will get is Scientists often refuting the illogical arguments of believers insisting, against all evidence, that Heaven/God does exist. That is an entirely different thing.
" About 30 yrs ago, she under went operation and died on the operating table. By the Grace of God, she returned back to her body. Doctor was in total disbelief and totally shocked she came back to her body. "
Died on the operating table? You mean she was officially pronounced dead? How long after this proclamation of death was it before "she returned"?
I mean if she was pronounced dead, and then she "returned" some hours or weeks later, I can understand the Doctors being shocked, but not otherwise. And anyway just how accurate can we expect this story to be - an anecdote based upon the recollection of events from 30 years ago undoubtedly embellished for dramatic effect - That's not meant as an insult, by the way; just an acknowledgement that all such life events tend to be exaggerated or embellished for dramatic effect over time and retelling?
Your mothers experience, however traumatic, however apparently miraculous, simply does not constitute proof of anything at all. Sorry, but there it is.Nor do her descriptions of Jesus mean anything at all.How are we to know whether it is just simple imaginings on her part? After all, as an avid Christian as you described, it is not totally surprising that she might have dreams and suchlike about god and heaven and jesus is it?
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@Gina
"@lazyGun...you are entitled to Believe as you like. For Me the Believer in Jesus Christ and Heaven is all I need for my life. I have Faith & Hope! I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. My Birth Mother died on operating table. Surgeon told her Sister she died during surgery. On record from Dr. she died. When they stopped to remove her body, her pulse and heartbeat returned. Died on table. That is when she went before God. I don't have to prove anything to you. Who ever you choose to spend your Eternity is completely up to you. For Me, my Eternal Salvation is EVERYTHING! God Bless You :)
"
You are entitled to believe in anything you want, Gina. What you are not entitled to do is to claim that belief as objective fact without any corroborating evidence. Especially if you want me or others to believe, then you absolutely do have something to prove, you do have to provide evidence.
And your mums story is presented as just that - a story - recounted to your Mums sister and recounted to you. No documentary evidence, no timelines, no corroborating evidence from attending physicians. Just your unsupported word.
So believe all you want, but don't try and offer your mum's story as proof of anything.
"@lazyGun...you are entitled to Believe as you like. For Me the Believer in Jesus Christ and Heaven is all I need for my life. I have Faith & Hope! I don't have to prove anything to you or anyone else. My Birth Mother died on operating table. Surgeon told her Sister she died during surgery. On record from Dr. she died. When they stopped to remove her body, her pulse and heartbeat returned. Died on table. That is when she went before God. I don't have to prove anything to you. Who ever you choose to spend your Eternity is completely up to you. For Me, my Eternal Salvation is EVERYTHING! God Bless You :)
"
You are entitled to believe in anything you want, Gina. What you are not entitled to do is to claim that belief as objective fact without any corroborating evidence. Especially if you want me or others to believe, then you absolutely do have something to prove, you do have to provide evidence.
And your mums story is presented as just that - a story - recounted to your Mums sister and recounted to you. No documentary evidence, no timelines, no corroborating evidence from attending physicians. Just your unsupported word.
So believe all you want, but don't try and offer your mum's story as proof of anything.
Gina, //Same can go for your Parliament & Our Congress and Leaders in DC.//
... but like Richard Branson they are not telling everyone else to give their money away whilst hoarding their own.
Why do you think people like Billy Graham know more about the unknown than you do? They don’t. How could they?
... but like Richard Branson they are not telling everyone else to give their money away whilst hoarding their own.
Why do you think people like Billy Graham know more about the unknown than you do? They don’t. How could they?
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@Gina I have no issue with faith - What I do have a problem with is people offering personal belief/faith and anecdote and stories as objective evidence, or proof of such things as the existence of a god or a heaven/hell.
We have faith in teachers and the emergency services and all of that because we are taught to have faith in them, because we can see objective evidence of what they can do, the help they can offer. So that is not faith - which is belief without evidence - so much as it is a conviction - a belief based upon objective evidence.
Believers seem to think that their faith, based upon their own personal feelings and subjective knowledge, is some sort of evidence - that we should accept unquestioningly such testaments and anecdotes as proof of god, or heaven.
No thanks. Have your faith, by all means. Just do not think that your faith constitutes proof or evidence of anything at all.
We have faith in teachers and the emergency services and all of that because we are taught to have faith in them, because we can see objective evidence of what they can do, the help they can offer. So that is not faith - which is belief without evidence - so much as it is a conviction - a belief based upon objective evidence.
Believers seem to think that their faith, based upon their own personal feelings and subjective knowledge, is some sort of evidence - that we should accept unquestioningly such testaments and anecdotes as proof of god, or heaven.
No thanks. Have your faith, by all means. Just do not think that your faith constitutes proof or evidence of anything at all.
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Another Cut and Paste merchant. Why reproduce all that screed? Why not make your point, your summary of how that article advances the point you are trying to make, and then offer us the link to the full article?
What do you think any of that has to do with Eben Alexander and his book "proof of heaven"?
How does the "wisdom of wolves" you have reproduced here validate the existence of heaven or hell, or belief, or anything else, come to that?
And actually, some of what is stated there is anyway crap. Humans going hunting are often hunting for different motives than wolves - not primarily for food but for a trophy, or for the thrill of the kill or whatever. Trying to draw such superficial parallels from the natural world and attempting to apply it to human society is just asinine.
What do you think any of that has to do with Eben Alexander and his book "proof of heaven"?
How does the "wisdom of wolves" you have reproduced here validate the existence of heaven or hell, or belief, or anything else, come to that?
And actually, some of what is stated there is anyway crap. Humans going hunting are often hunting for different motives than wolves - not primarily for food but for a trophy, or for the thrill of the kill or whatever. Trying to draw such superficial parallels from the natural world and attempting to apply it to human society is just asinine.
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