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Why Do Bad Things Happen?
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A atheist raised the following problem: “To some extent there is order, wonder and beauty in nature. But this is only one half of the picture. The other half is terrible chaos.” Then, after explaining what he means by “chaos”—such things as natural disasters, pestilences and the like—he goes on to say: “A religious person gazes lovingly at the order in nature that strengthens his religion, but looks away from the chaos that weakens such creed.
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Perhaps this will help Khandro,
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//how did consciousness appear in matter?//
Consciousness evolved with living things as a result of the benefits it provides to living things, beginning with sensation accompanied by an appropriate response that promotes survival, well-being, and an improved ability to integrate to, with and adapt to changes in its environment leading to the development of more and more complex organisms able to respond to more and more complex stimuli in more and more complex ways, eventually leading to the ability to integrate sensations into perceptions, concepts and finally reason . . . how else?
Consciousness evolved with living things as a result of the benefits it provides to living things, beginning with sensation accompanied by an appropriate response that promotes survival, well-being, and an improved ability to integrate to, with and adapt to changes in its environment leading to the development of more and more complex organisms able to respond to more and more complex stimuli in more and more complex ways, eventually leading to the ability to integrate sensations into perceptions, concepts and finally reason . . . how else?
Those who do not love God can offer no resistance on his own resources to the physical and moral blandishments of the world. . . . Religion . . . is an instinctive attitude peculiar to man, and its manifestations can be followed all through human history. . . . The idea of an all-powerful divine being is present everywhere, if not consciously recognized, then unconsciously accepted . . . Therefore I consider it wiser to recognize the idea of God consciously; otherwise something else becomes god, as a rule something quite inappropriate and stupid.
goodlife, you really need to open your eyes to see that there are millions of Atheists all over the world leading very happy, normal and fulfilling lives. Try thinking it out for yourself instead of being told what to think!
I think it is quite shocking how JW take over peoples lives and convince people that JW is the only way when clearly they are considered "CRANKS" by normal people!
I think it is quite shocking how JW take over peoples lives and convince people that JW is the only way when clearly they are considered "CRANKS" by normal people!
Ratter@ True there are millions atheists all over the world even in the churches.
And to open my eyes, thank you, but I have.
Jesus left no doubt about what being his disciple would involve. A slave is not greater than his master,” he told his followers. “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” Jesus was hated “without cause.” (John 15:18-20, 25; Psalm 69:4; Luke 23:22)
So his disciples could expect the same—opposition without justifiable basis. On more than one occasion, he warned them: “You will be objects of hatred, so you can call us what you like.
And to open my eyes, thank you, but I have.
Jesus left no doubt about what being his disciple would involve. A slave is not greater than his master,” he told his followers. “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” Jesus was hated “without cause.” (John 15:18-20, 25; Psalm 69:4; Luke 23:22)
So his disciples could expect the same—opposition without justifiable basis. On more than one occasion, he warned them: “You will be objects of hatred, so you can call us what you like.
Religion easily has the best bullsh*t story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there's an invisible man. . .living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.
//If man arose without intelligent guidance, why should he have intelligence? Can unintelligence create intelligence? //
Yes. DNA is prone to mutations. Mutations lead to variety. Varieties compete on all levels (physical strength, mental agility etc.) and any competitive edge will enhance reproductive success. One recurrent theme, in the animal kingdom, is that larger brains became the factor which best enhanced survival and breeding success.
At some stage, a capacity for abstract thought arose. It's difficult to work out where on the evolutionary tree this might have been but chimpanzees, which have been taught sign language, appear capable of stringing together short sentences of their own devising - not merely mimicry of things their trainers taught them. One was even able to form its own compound words, to request a fruit for which it had not been taught the sign for.
Abstract thought from a pink gelatinous blob made from proteins, cell membranes, water and minerals.
Not bad eh?
Yes. DNA is prone to mutations. Mutations lead to variety. Varieties compete on all levels (physical strength, mental agility etc.) and any competitive edge will enhance reproductive success. One recurrent theme, in the animal kingdom, is that larger brains became the factor which best enhanced survival and breeding success.
At some stage, a capacity for abstract thought arose. It's difficult to work out where on the evolutionary tree this might have been but chimpanzees, which have been taught sign language, appear capable of stringing together short sentences of their own devising - not merely mimicry of things their trainers taught them. One was even able to form its own compound words, to request a fruit for which it had not been taught the sign for.
Abstract thought from a pink gelatinous blob made from proteins, cell membranes, water and minerals.
Not bad eh?
LG; You evade the question, which is about consciousness in a material universe, and your evasion goes even further when you say - go read a book about evolution. Saying that you don't like the questioner seems like petulance and an irrelevant means of avoidance, I'm not the only person on here, possibly others might like to hear your answer.
Khandro
mibn2cweus; I didn't ask how consciousness evolved with living things, I asked, "how did consciousness appear in matter?"
14:16 Tue 05th Nov 2013
Consciousness appearing in matter? The only matter I'm aware of that exhibits the attribute of consciousness is . . . gray matter. Perhaps you should refine your search for an answer there.
mibn2cweus; I didn't ask how consciousness evolved with living things, I asked, "how did consciousness appear in matter?"
14:16 Tue 05th Nov 2013
Consciousness appearing in matter? The only matter I'm aware of that exhibits the attribute of consciousness is . . . gray matter. Perhaps you should refine your search for an answer there.
Your response; //Good question . . . another thread perhaps? ;o)// The usual ploy to engage when you can't answer the question before you.
How did your "gray(sic) matter" manifesting consciousness, evolve from the inert matter solely present at the formation of the planet?
Are you suggesting that given sufficient time, the rock in my garden would somehow expound life, and given even more time that this life could become aware of its own existence?
Unaided, that would be a neat trick.
How did your "gray(sic) matter" manifesting consciousness, evolve from the inert matter solely present at the formation of the planet?
Are you suggesting that given sufficient time, the rock in my garden would somehow expound life, and given even more time that this life could become aware of its own existence?
Unaided, that would be a neat trick.
My apologies Khandro, I hadn't figured you as one abject towards the preferred spelling used in the Holy Bible.
As for that rock in your garden, isn't it just as likely by your reckoning that God in His infinite wisdom placed it there intentionally and unaided, much like the snake in the tree of knowledge, in an apparently effective attempt to lead you, and this thread, astray?
As for that rock in your garden, isn't it just as likely by your reckoning that God in His infinite wisdom placed it there intentionally and unaided, much like the snake in the tree of knowledge, in an apparently effective attempt to lead you, and this thread, astray?
@Khandro,
I take it you decline to accept my post in lieu of the explanation you demanded of LazyGun?
Or do you expect a full explanation of how to get from primordial earth atmosphere (Hydrogen, methane, ammonia, steam) to amino acids (so called "primordial soup") and from there to spontaneously formed polypeptides and proteins?
Yes, spontaneous. If you allow reactive molecules to collide with each other over and over again for millions of years, even the extremely improbable permutations of molecule collisions can and will occur and increasingly complex polymers will form.
And if you counter that reaction rates would be slow on earth's surface then I can suggest deep ocean hydrothermal vents, where temperatures are hundreds of centigrade, pressures are enormous and reaction rates can therefore be high even without the existence of enzymes.
I take it you decline to accept my post in lieu of the explanation you demanded of LazyGun?
Or do you expect a full explanation of how to get from primordial earth atmosphere (Hydrogen, methane, ammonia, steam) to amino acids (so called "primordial soup") and from there to spontaneously formed polypeptides and proteins?
Yes, spontaneous. If you allow reactive molecules to collide with each other over and over again for millions of years, even the extremely improbable permutations of molecule collisions can and will occur and increasingly complex polymers will form.
And if you counter that reaction rates would be slow on earth's surface then I can suggest deep ocean hydrothermal vents, where temperatures are hundreds of centigrade, pressures are enormous and reaction rates can therefore be high even without the existence of enzymes.
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