Relgious Hierarchy...

[ck1]

How does this work, for example, why is the pope a 'higher' catholic than the chap who works in my local chippy? Is he just better at believing?

[BlueToffee]

Not necessarily ck1, I'm sure he doesn't believe any more than other Catholics, he's a career Catholic, a bit like Cameron and Milliband are career politicians.

[VHG]

Most "top" religious leaders are more like business people, running a large business. You work your way up the management hierarchy, the same as you do in any company. Eventually you become "the boss".

Many large religions also have huge wealth, with much land and many buildings etc.

And this all has to be managed, though I am sure most of the people who do the actual managing of this portfolio of money and land and buildings work "behind the scenes" and are never seen.

[ck1]

But with politicians, they are (generally) educated in politics and although it doesn't always seem like it they have a much higher capacity to apply their political knowledge to the running of the country.
So the higher up the business they are is more a reflection of how well they can manage the estates etc and is independent of the God thing?

[bert_h]

This is one of the major differences between Roman Catholics and the Reformed churches. A key phrase of the reformed faith is "the universal priesthood of all believers" - all equal in God's sight, but some with particular duties and responsibilities.

I don't know whether the Catholics believe that once they've appointed someone to a higher post, God takes notice of that and treats him specially; or that God has already chosen those whom He will treat specially, and the Holy Spirit makes sure that the election goes their way. But they certainly believe that, one way or another, their higher officebearers are somehow closer to God.

[Octavius]

I think of it more as Executive Chairman, with a board of cardinals and various factories all over the world.

[chrisgel]

The pope has a unique position amongst believers in that he is regarded as infallible. He is "preserved from the possibility of error" and as such is the sole arbiter of catholic doctrine.
What he says goes.

[keyplus90]

If you talk about "believing" then I am still looking for a single "yes single" christian including pope who would be a believer according to the standard given in book of Mark chapter 16, vers 17 and 18. Here it is.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

[jomifl]

Keyplus, there are no more genuine christians than there are genuine muslims so you can stop looking , you won't find one.

[doctordb]

It's a similar order to that of the mafia or the giant drug cartels.

[mibn2cweus]

The God Father, "Make them an offer . . . they can't refuse."

[chrisgel]

Keyplus - Matthew 7:21-23--------Mark 9:38------------Luke 9:49

[ll_billym]

Works like any other business:- Put the hours in, kiss the right rings and one day all this will be yours.

[seadogg]

I prefer the Father Ted version of the Vatican.

[keyplus90]

////Keyplus, there are no more genuine christians than there are genuine muslims so you can stop looking , you won't find one./////

But there is not any given criteria like this in Quran to prove someone a true believer or otherwise that Muslims do not fulfil.


////Keyplus - Matthew 7:21-23--------Mark 9:38------------Luke 9:49////


First one proves Muslims right as Islam means surrendering to the will of God translated as "my father" in Bible. Other two prove nothing in the known world at present but tells you about what happened in the gone times according to a couple of other writers of the Bible. And even if we take that as truth then that only fulfills one of the requirements given in Mark chapter 16 vers 17-18. What about the others?

[Peter Pedant]

Jesus was no stranger to Priests as he was surrounded with them - and even taught them according to some traditions. Very soon, the NT mentions deacons and priests and elders (presbuteros) which are now taken to be bishops.

The beliefs surrounding Bishops ordaining priests is very important.
( so you have a hierarchy and they have functions)

The romans carried on up the scale (iterating the process in modern speak) and the reformed churches spectacularly rejected it around the 1400s ( John Wyclif - 'there are no cardinals or Popes in the Bible' and not surprisingly the bishop of Rome didnt like that at all)

So is a priest higher than the local left footer in a chippy down the road ?
yup I think he would say so - and not be too worried about it - and so on up past Bishops to Cardinals.

If I were worried about someone directing my religious beliefs - I think I would be a Quaker (no priest,s no sacraments and not much in the way of services)

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - “... First one proves Muslims right as Islam means surrendering to the will of God translated as "my father" in Bible...”

You have a very strange view of what constitutes 'proof'.

As many people have said before on many different threads, the fact that the Koran contains similar passages to the Bible is because of the quite obvious fact that the Koran is not an independently arrived at tome. Large sections of it have clearly been plagiarised from pre-existing documents such as the Bible which pre-dates the writing of the Koran by several hundred years.

[mikey4444]

A joke from this years Edinburgh Fringe

" The Pope is a bit like Doctor Who...he never really dies, he just keeps being reincarnated as a white man ""

[naomi24]

Keyplus, for reasons that should be obvious to you, it's not a good idea for you to pick holes in the bible - and to hold those up as 'proof' that Muslims are right. ;o)

[goodlife]

To get your answer, you must go back to the time when Christ Jesus and his apostles. Some people say that the story about them is only make-believe.
But is there where is show who is really thankful for what God had given them. Would you have obeyed if you had been there?

Now if Christ Jesus and his apostles did indeed establish the Roman Catholic Church, then why is it that we look in vain, from Matthew through the Apocalypse or Revelation, for any mention whatsoever of the “Holy Father,” or a pope, a college of cardinals, archbishops, metropolitans, patriarchs, monsignors, right reverends, priests, abbots, monks and nuns?

The Scriptural record does tell us of Christians being organized back there, but if the structure of the Catholic Church is in line with that of the early Christians, how is it that we find absolutely no mention of it, not even a hint regarding such an elaborate system?

Yes, Jesus said: “Whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave”; and, “One is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for One is your Father, the heavenly One.”—Matt. 20:27; 23:8, 9, simple

[birdie1971]

Goodlife -

If I understand your above post correctly you are saying that the Catholic Church as we know it today bears little or no resemblance to the kind of religious movement that Jesus and his followers were seeking to establish.

If my reading of your above post is correct then I would, on this very rare occasion, agree with you.