Does Anyone Actually Listen To What Is Being Said At Religious Ceremonies?

[naomi24]

I went to a Christian funeral today, and listening to the words of committal, realised they don’t make sense. Here they are:

//We have entrusted our brother/sister to God's mercy,
and we now commit his/her body to be cremated:
earth to earth, ashes to ashes, dust to dust:
in sure and certain hope of the resurrection to eternal life.//

What is ‘sure and certain hope’? How can ‘hope’ be either sure or certain? Any offers?

[Old_Geezer]

It's a statement of strong belief.
Ultimately all we think we know for certain has some assumptions underpinning them.

[Old_Geezer]

Anyway I'm sure and certain I'm hoping when I think I'm hoping ;-)

[emmie]

we didn't have that type of service for the o/h, he didn't believe and had he, i would have queried that bit...

[naomi24]

OG, //It's a statement of strong belief. //

Hoping isn't believing. If you were sure you were right, you wouldn't need to hope you were right.

[joko]

its just more wishy washy religious claptrap designed to cover all the bases when questioned

[coccinelle]

Not everyone will resurrect to eternal life on judgement day. The 'hope' is there as we hope this person's spirit will be resurrected and the 'sure and certain' are there for comfort as we're just saying this person merits being resurrected but we don't know if they will...that's my interpretation of it.

[Canary42]

/// we're just saying this person merits being resurrected but we don't know if they will. ///

You mean God might not agree with our view ?

[Canary42]

Ironically, it was actually listening carefully to the words of my brother's Confirmation Service that turned me into an Atheist.

[jim360]

How'd that happen Canary?

I tend to enjoy listening to the words of services for their own sake. Sometimes very well-written for its own sake, even if the words carry no meaning for me.

[coccinelle]

Yes, canary. Who are we to judge? We might think this person led a decent life but this might not be so. We just hope this person will attain eternal life.
I'm saying this from a religious point of view not from my own... I have my own spiritual beliefs.

[Calibax]

It's certainly bad grammar."Sure and certain" is a tautology and "sure and certain hope" is a contradiction in terms.
Unless of course it means that the 'hope' is sure and certain even if the reality isn't!

[Canary42]

/// How'd that happen Canary? ///

Sorry Jim, don't remember the details now - it was over 50 years ago.

[jomifl]

coccinelle,
/Not everyone will resurrect to eternal life on judgement day. /
how can you be sure? :-)--->

[coccinelle]

From a religious point of view jomifl; because it's written in the Bible. Only the righteous have everlasting life.

[jomifl]

OK coccinelle , you've said what you have to say, now tell us what you really think.

[naomi24]

Canary, /./the words of my brother's Confirmation Service that turned me into an Atheist. //

The words of the Baptism service, spoken over the head of a little child, could well have a similar effect on the thinking listener. I absolutely detest that ceremony.

[modeller]

I don't ! But I do get comfort from the bag of chocolates I carry to while away the tedium. The last funeral I attended was for an agnostic friend whose family insisted on giving him a Christian service. He would have hated it especially when his devout daughter said he was now in the arms of Jesus. IMO she was not showing him respect. She knew how he felt.

[jim360]

Ah ok Canary, never mind then. I dare say things haven't changed much so I might be able to look it up myself.

[ll_billym]

I have no problem with the earth-to-earth bit, it is pretty factual.

The rest of it is just words to comfort people who believe in that sort of thing and funerals are the one place that I am happy to let people deal with things however they want to. Even the 'believers' have the social grace not to go round rejoicing that the deceased is now 'in a better place' and therefore underneath it all surely know it is speculation at best.

Eternal life - I can't think of anything worse. I'm doing my shift then I'm clocking straight out.

[birdie1971]

Naomi -

I have heard that, “sure and certain hope” quote many, many times and I've never given it a second thought. You're absolutely right – it's completely nonsensical and internally inconsistent. Either it's a rotten translation of the original Hebrew or the original was just as woolly-headed.