Was The Atheist Boyscout Mentioned Recently In R&s, The Thin Edge Of The Wedge?

[sandyRoe]

Now the Girl Guides may be going the same way

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/girl-guides-could-drop-god-queen-oath-152617003.html#dTqG0i7

[atalanta]

The thin end of which wedge, exactly ?

[LazyGun]

Heh. Good on them, I say. No need to pledge allegiance to a figurehead monarch. No need to include the notion of a deity either.

UK scouts are reviewing their whole oath, not before time. Girl Guides in Australia have already removed a pledge to god and queen.

Looks like the girls are the progressive forward thinkers. Yet again, the boys seem to be lagging behind... :)

[sandyRoe]

The wedge designed to open a gap between the children and the place in their affections that both ER and the church should hold.

[rojash]

"and the place in their affections that both ER and the church should hold."

WOW, exactly why should the descendant of a German bandit chief, and a mythical being hold a place in the affections of a child?

[China Doll]

Why should either hold any in the affections of children? Children can also make their own minds up.

[albaqwerty]

Sandy, I was brought up to believe that people earned respect, and not just because of the position they hold.
Due to that upbringing, God is not respected or believed in by me.
I admire what Queen Betty does though.

[LazyGun]

"The wedge designed to open a gap between the children and the place in their affections that both ER and the church should hold."

Really? In this day and age? Why? Old fashioned, potentially exclusive and divisive.

The principles of responsiblity, friendship and education; the desire to offer help and care for your community and the natural world do not need or require fealty to a figurehead or an imaginary being - and they certainly should not be used as a reason to reject prospective members.

[naomi24]

If this means all young girls will now be welcome, then it can only be for the good.

[beso]

The original oath to the Queen and God introduced an artificial gap between the children by excluding some. Removing them from the oath removes the wedge.

It does not deny anyone the right to privately support those institutions.

Sandy's claim is a Strawman.

[anotheoldgit]

Forgive me for going off track sandy, but haven't they spelt your name wrong?

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8439811.ece/ALTERNATES/w180/02-manarrestedgunshot-PA.jpg

[sandyRoe]

AOG, that's part of a lynch mob that's after me. As they can't even spell my name properly there's little chance of them ever catching up with me. :-)

[Scylax]

Allegiance to a deity...? Why? Which deity/ Why not allegiance to Sainsbury, Tesco or British Gas; at least they're real ?.

[sandyRoe]

But if children aren't schooled in respect for their elders and deference towards the monarch and the church what sort of society will we have in just a few years?

[LazyGun]

@ Sandy
"But if children aren't schooled in respect for their elders and deference towards the monarch and the church what sort of society will we have in just a few years?"

Please. Deference is absolutely not something we should desire to be tought to anyone. Respect for society, respect for parents and elders, yes. Respect for community, society and the natural world. All a resounding yes. Extending the hand of friendship, being willing to help fellow members of your community - these are all good and worthwhile things that should be taught.

None of these things require deference to a figurehead monarch - what precisely about the Monarchy is worthy of deference?, And since there are many brands of god, and many who do not believe at all, retaining a pledge to god is just outmoded, outdated, unnecessary, potentially divisive and potentially exclusive of those honest non-believers who do not wish to start their public minded service with a lie.

The Scouts and Guides should be encouraged along the road to change and enlightenment. The pledges to god, monarch, even country are unnecessary to school children in being good and conscientious citizens, Sandy.

[DaisyNonna]

I promise to do my best, to do my duty no need to specify[i to help other people at all times and obey the [i]Guide, Scout] law.

[naomi24]

'Deference'. What a horrible concept that is.