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Can the dead talk to us?
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Something a bit different to talk about. Last night's offering from 4thought TV.
The presenter mentions controlled experiments that suggest it is a reality – personally I don’t know of any experiments that are verified - but he also says he seems to have a faculty of mind that takes his awareness beyond his physical five senses to become aware of things that others simply cannot be aware of. Is that possible?
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The presenter mentions controlled experiments that suggest it is a reality – personally I don’t know of any experiments that are verified - but he also says he seems to have a faculty of mind that takes his awareness beyond his physical five senses to become aware of things that others simply cannot be aware of. Is that possible?
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Answers
I can recall, vividly, being aware of things that others missed Naomi.
Mind you it was the seventies, my experimental period.
Mind you it was the seventies, my experimental period.
08:59 Tue 30th Oct 2012
Mibs, //What I'm questioning is how these unusual (to put it mildly) experiences are being interpreted as well as the (no less unusual) causes to which they are being attributed.//
I haven't interpreted them, nor have I attributed a cause. I simply don't know how or why these things happen - but I know they do.
Actually I thought posting the video might lead to some interesting discussion in which people from all sections of AB might feel tempted to join, introducing perhaps a few ideas outside of the usual criticism these subjects attract – and always from people who, in reality, know no more than anyone else about them, but just think they do - and finally, and by no means least, to something a little different from the recent interminable preaching of our resident Jehovah's Witnesses.
Have a pumpkin pie. Sperlatt!! :o)
I haven't interpreted them, nor have I attributed a cause. I simply don't know how or why these things happen - but I know they do.
Actually I thought posting the video might lead to some interesting discussion in which people from all sections of AB might feel tempted to join, introducing perhaps a few ideas outside of the usual criticism these subjects attract – and always from people who, in reality, know no more than anyone else about them, but just think they do - and finally, and by no means least, to something a little different from the recent interminable preaching of our resident Jehovah's Witnesses.
Have a pumpkin pie. Sperlatt!! :o)
jomifl; regarding your belief that the understanding of animals be better left to scientists; of all the people I have met who have the greatest understanding of animals, jockeys, grooms, trainers, animal behaviorists, horse whisperers, dog trainers, and more, not one of them has been a scientist - strange that!
Yes Khandro very strange and I'm sure they are all in complete agreement with each other. I used the word 'understanding' in a broader sense than you seem to understand it. How do your 'understanders' understand animals, is it by observaton or 'telepathy'? I will understand if you don't know the answer.
But "the vibe" is not transmitted through paranormal means, or another sense we have yet to find.We experience the vibe or the atmosphere of a venue or a crowd or another person through a combination of sensory input - from our existing senses. No need to posit the existence of other senses.
And which of those professions on your list, Khandro, is going to propose the hypotheses, design the experiments, perform the observations and sift through the data in order to arrive at a fundamental understanding of such behaviours, how theyare intitiated, what biomechanical or neurophysical processes may be involved?
Or should we just say "morphic field" or goddidit, and leave it at that?
And which of those professions on your list, Khandro, is going to propose the hypotheses, design the experiments, perform the observations and sift through the data in order to arrive at a fundamental understanding of such behaviours, how theyare intitiated, what biomechanical or neurophysical processes may be involved?
Or should we just say "morphic field" or goddidit, and leave it at that?
Interesting answers but what do you think of some animal inexplicable behaviour ?
Let me give an example :
I have had some friends over the years who didn't like animals and if we were out walking and at a distance and we saw dogs ,they frequently exhibited totally different behaviour towards us. . They would show friendship towards me but hostility or indifference to my friends.
The most recent example was with an Alsation who ran straight past me and bit my friend. I stress this difference starts to show up 200 odd yards
away . Too far for them to detect any difference between us you would think.
Let me give an example :
I have had some friends over the years who didn't like animals and if we were out walking and at a distance and we saw dogs ,they frequently exhibited totally different behaviour towards us. . They would show friendship towards me but hostility or indifference to my friends.
The most recent example was with an Alsation who ran straight past me and bit my friend. I stress this difference starts to show up 200 odd yards
away . Too far for them to detect any difference between us you would think.
heh. I dont know - if a vicious dog ignores me to go for my friends, I might want to keep those friends as protection! :)
Cannot comment on specific anecdotes Modeller, for the simple reason that I was not there. It might be something as mundane as the dog seeing your friend as being a greater threat, or perhaps it was something to do with smell - cannot answer.
I simply think it a mistake to assume an extraordinary solution - that of telepathy, or an as yet unnamed sense on the basis of a few anedotal experiences.
As with most of these things, more information, more science, more trials would be the answer :)
Cannot comment on specific anecdotes Modeller, for the simple reason that I was not there. It might be something as mundane as the dog seeing your friend as being a greater threat, or perhaps it was something to do with smell - cannot answer.
I simply think it a mistake to assume an extraordinary solution - that of telepathy, or an as yet unnamed sense on the basis of a few anedotal experiences.
As with most of these things, more information, more science, more trials would be the answer :)
//And which of those professions on your list, Khandro, is going to propose the hypotheses, design the experiments, perform the observations and sift through the data in order to arrive at a fundamental understanding of such behaviours, how they are intitiated, what biomechanical or neurophysical processes may be involved?//
They don't need it, they already have a direct, reciprocal understanding.
They don't need it, they already have a direct, reciprocal understanding.
LG, //As with most of these things, more information, more science, more trials would be the answer//
I agree, but if they occur randomly and spontaneously, which in my experience they do, it’s practically impossible to conduct trials. That’s of course unless we’re talking about that silly but probably very wealthy psychic Sally woman or potty Derek what-ever-his-name-is – or Mysterious Madame Zaza in her booth at the end of the pier. ;o)
I agree, but if they occur randomly and spontaneously, which in my experience they do, it’s practically impossible to conduct trials. That’s of course unless we’re talking about that silly but probably very wealthy psychic Sally woman or potty Derek what-ever-his-name-is – or Mysterious Madame Zaza in her booth at the end of the pier. ;o)
What we have is reported events - random and spontaneous - that by the observers description seemingly fall outside what it explainable by current scientific understanding.
In some instances, it may be possible to recreate the events as described to see if it is repeatable, and therefore testable. Other times, not so much. So, in these cases we have to rely on testing hypotheses for powers or senses that fall outside of our current understanding.
This has happened - people have suggested that it may be possible to communicate telepathically, or move items using telekinesis. or speak with the dead via mediums. Such claims can be tested. Controlled experiments can be devised to demonstrate whether such powers are there.
Such tests rely on huge numbers of tests, lots of replication, to take into account the spontaneous or random factor. Now such tests have been conducted over decades, centuries in some cases. And in all that time,when looking at telepathy, or mediumship, none of these trials have been able to demonstrate any significance beyond random background noise.
Given their randomness and lack of repeatability, what seems the most likely explanation? That it is a manifestation of an as yet unknown power or manifestation of the supernatural, or that the event is thought to be miraculous because the full circumstances are not fully understood by the observer? Or that the observers mind/perception is playing tricks on them? or that they have misremembered the event? or that they have remembered a dream as a memory?
Given how our brains and perception works, I would go for the latter :)
In some instances, it may be possible to recreate the events as described to see if it is repeatable, and therefore testable. Other times, not so much. So, in these cases we have to rely on testing hypotheses for powers or senses that fall outside of our current understanding.
This has happened - people have suggested that it may be possible to communicate telepathically, or move items using telekinesis. or speak with the dead via mediums. Such claims can be tested. Controlled experiments can be devised to demonstrate whether such powers are there.
Such tests rely on huge numbers of tests, lots of replication, to take into account the spontaneous or random factor. Now such tests have been conducted over decades, centuries in some cases. And in all that time,when looking at telepathy, or mediumship, none of these trials have been able to demonstrate any significance beyond random background noise.
Given their randomness and lack of repeatability, what seems the most likely explanation? That it is a manifestation of an as yet unknown power or manifestation of the supernatural, or that the event is thought to be miraculous because the full circumstances are not fully understood by the observer? Or that the observers mind/perception is playing tricks on them? or that they have misremembered the event? or that they have remembered a dream as a memory?
Given how our brains and perception works, I would go for the latter :)
LG, I’ve seen some of those experiments – and on the whole I agree with you. However, as I said before, when unexplained events impact upon the physical world they simply cannot be attributed to delusion. I’ll give you an example. I lived in, for want of a better term, a ‘haunted house’ – and it was seriously ‘haunted’. The banging and crashing, the ‘dancing’ house plants, the disappearing items, and all that went with it aside – we’d often wake in the morning to find that every single watch and clock in the house – even those mainly unused and lying in drawers - whether electric, battery, or clockwork, had gone back exactly an hour – and it didn’t happen once – it happened frequently. Even the cooker clock and the TV and video clocks were an hour out. No one was playing tricks, but it happened and there was no explanation – and there still is no explanation – but it was pretty unnerving. An unsubstantiated anecdote to anyone who didn’t witness it, I know, but as I asked Birdie, why would I, who values truth and rational examination of all uncorroborated claims, relate such incidents and expose myself to ridicule and criticism for no good reason?
