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flip_flop | 09:28 Tue 08th Feb 2011 | Society & Culture
17 Answers
Some of you may remember a Q I posted last year about the absurdity of having to attend church so that we could get the backing of the local vicar to get our kids into our nearest school.


Well, we are still going every Sunday and have become active members of the church, which involves making the tea for after the service etc...

Usually I zone-out during the service because I find it astonishing that (a) the vicar believes the old pony he is spouting and (b) so does most of the congregation (I say 'most' because there are a number of people who are attending church for the same reasons we are).

This Sunday was the family service where they usually put on a puppet show for the kids and then the vicar does his little bit from the bible, and there was something this week that made me sit up and pay attention..............the Vicar said we were all, including the children, sinners, and the thought occurred to me that how can a religion have a basic premise that everybody is automatically a sinner?

As a non-believer I don't know enough (anything) about religion to be able to form an answer so I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts.


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Sad - I really thought they'd got over that stuff

Before you know it they'll be back on the "You're all going to hell" track.

I'd be tempted to ask the vicar whether he subscribes to the notion of original sin and therefore literally believes in Adam and Eve.

Whether he believes that unbaptised babies go to hell being after all born into sin without the opportunity to repent.

But you're not looking for a fight.

In a strange perverse way I admire you going to church for this - I couldn't last five minutes without starting a blazing row
christian doctrine holds that sin is inherited.

some believers think that we are born with sin and need life long salvation. others believe that we are born with sin, absolved with baptism and then miust remain without sin forever more.

your q: how can a religion have a basic premise that everybody is automatically a sinner? has quite a simple answer; in that it needs its followers to believe this so that they keep going to church and worshipping their god in the hope that they get forgiven and go to heaven and such. the mor they go to church, the more money they put in the basket, and so on.

if you are looking for rebuke of the doctrine, then its realy not necessary, its stupidity speaks for itself.
What religion is it?
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Sorry bit don't you feel just the slightest hypocritical?
Not content with simply having you by the balls they insist on tugging on them occasionally to remind you who's in charge. And if they had their way I would no be writing this . . . not even metaphorically.
I am not a sinner for the simple reason that sin is a purely religious concept and I am not religious.

If I were a Jew I would be a sinner for doing things on a Saturday; a sinning JW for supporting blood-transfusions; a sinful RC for using contraceptives; a sinful Muslim for being an infidel...and so on. Why don't you ask your vicar what CofE sins he has committed and what he is going to do about them? Bit of fun there.
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Ric.ror - I am not slightly hypocritical, I am completely hypocritical.

I believe in the existence of god about as much as I do in the existence of leprechauns.
So why send your kids to a church school that will teach them views you do not want them to learn and will also teach th you have no scruples
Sorry if it seems like I am having a go but I got off my ar&e and walked my kids to catholic school because that was how I wanted them educated
Sorry bout the typos I am on my new phone
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Very simply Ric.ror because the closest non-church affiliated school could take up to an hour's round trip a day in the car, whereas the (state funded) church affiliated school is a five minute walk.

Being a hypocrite and letting the Vicar think we believe in all the mumbo jumbo is a small price to pay.

Ironically the school itself isn't particularly 'churchy', but I do find it a disgrace that in a largely secular society - as we are now - that the church can wield such power in a state-funded school. State funded.

As far as the scruples commnet is concerned, it does nothing of the sort.
sounds like they believe things are inherited rather than learnt. Is that definitely wrong?
Wasn't it Adam who landed us all into sin?
I really don't mean to have a go - though I know it does not sound like it. But I have often wondered about this - it's just one of those things I wonder about -bit like parking I'm a disabled parking space - strange comparison I know but its late - I just wondered how you can betray your own ideals over something that is important
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I guess it largely depends on what one considers important Ric.ror.

In my view the church is an anachronism that has no place in modern society and certainly should have no sway over who can and cannot go to particular schools.

As a result the church is not important to me.

What is important to me though is where my children go to school and therefore if I can manipulate an unimportant organisation to achieve an important goal, I will.
//sounds like they believe things are inherited rather than learnt. Is that definitely wrong? //

Not if you're talking about hair colour JNO

But think about what is being suggested here - we'll leave aside whether sin exists (as obviously I think it's all nonsense)

They're suggesting that someone's new born child who has never done anything more than suck it's thumb is sinful, unclean in the eyes of God because of it's parents.

That's a disgraceful guilt trip to be laying on people.

That's what I meant when I said I really thought they'd gotten over this stuff.

They should be ashamed of themselves
millions of parents through the centuries have coped quite well with the disgrace, jake.

But what do you think? If by sinfulness we're talking about a propensity for doing bad things (which of course is arguable), is that inheritable or not?
Hi. have you thought about the influence these religious people have over your children?
your undercurrants of non belief are rising to the surface.
id be the same, i hated being made to go to chapel, hated it.
id bolt and only attend now and again, saving your children from a life of confusion and false hope.

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